In this episode of 'But the Years Are Short', Megan and Katie explore the complexities of parenting, particularly focusing on how to navigate big emotions in older children and in ourselves.
They discuss the importance of recognizing our own emotional states, the necessity of repairing relationships after conflicts, and the significance of teaching children how to express their feelings appropriately.
The conversation emphasizes the need for open communication and creating a safe environment for emotional expression within families.
Resources: Mel Robbins Podcast: The Real Reason Boys and Men are Quietly Giving Up and What They Need to Hear
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Meagan (00:02)
This is But the Years Are Short, the podcast where mommas who are therapists share real advice for real families. I'm Megan. And I'm Katie. And we want to be your front porch community where you can laugh and learn with us about the beautiful, messy, overwhelming, hilarious work of raising kids. Because the days are long. But the years are short.
Meagan (00:33)
Our music is by Stephen Bettall. If you're loving these conversations, we'd be so grateful if you followed the podcast, left a review, or shared this episode with a friend. That's how we grow this little front porch community. And remember, the days are long, but the years are short. While we often talk about mental health, this should not be used as a substitute for mental health treatment. If you or your child are struggling, please reach out to a local provider.
Meagan (01:06)
Hello, welcome to our podcast. We need to cut all that. Yeah, that's fine. Okay, y'all, so I'm a really moment. My oldest is gonna be...
14 this weekend. And this one is like hitting me harder for some reason. Here's the reason. Well, I've been like reflecting on it, of course, because that's what we do all day. We reflect on all the things. But I think it's so hard because like I distinctly remember being 14. And so I think it's super weird when our kids get to the place where like we have memories about.
So.
It doesn't necessarily make me, it doesn't even fold. Also, I like live in my head that I'm like 25, it's just so weird to like see him become an age that like, loved eighth grade. And so like, I have all these really distinct memories of it. then so funny and bizarre, sad, all the things, like all the emotions. It's just so funny. Yeah. Kind of where I'm at today. Yeah. my most distinct memory of eighth grade is
that
I had a ⁓ my favorite middle school boyfriend, ⁓ who incidentally, at this moment is my parents boss. Small world. I just think is so funny. But anyway, he's like the nicest guy. He grew up to be a great human. So I just would like to say that I must have great taste from a very young age. So he so ⁓ he
played baseball in middle school and I played ⁓ soccer in middle school and ⁓ I was in so on the same weekend I broke my elbow at my birthday party. Yeah and so my birthday party was at a skating rink you know like we you know like we do and he
like broke his leg in some kind of a way and someone should send this to him because I thought it was just, you know, fate and the universe had aligned that we broke. We both broke a bone. The same weekend while we were dating ⁓ in middle school. And ⁓ I just remember in eighth grade, like having ⁓ this like it was like.
You know, it must have been the end of the year or something, but we got to go spend a bunch of time outside. It was like, it wasn't a field day, but it was like one of those deals where it's like, there's no curriculum left. And so we all get to be outside and I had crimped my hair. So it was very cool. I was looking very good. I'm sure my lip gloss was like on point, too much eyeliner, you know, so good. Right. And just thinking that I looked
so amazing. And I'm pretty sure that that was very near the end of our relationship. But ⁓ those were just the days like running around with your friends and trying to figure out like, how much this person likes that person and like, yeah, and those were like, yes, passing notes because there was no texting.
You know? Yeah, it was amazing. And how big that whole world felt. You know, like how important those problems were all the time. Yeah. And I think that's it, right? Like, I think that's why it's so funny and hard that my baby is going to be in there. Yes. I think he is already. Yeah. Mm That's weird. That's weird. Yep. So fun. Exactly. All right. Well, Katie, today what we're talking about are big emotions. Yes. Which
We know as humans and therapists is that it like starts way little and it doesn't necessarily stop.
for our kiddos and ourselves. And so one of the big things that we want to really dive into today is how do we help our kids when they're having big emotions and how do we as parents regulate our big emotions in the midst of our kiddos big emotions? Yeah, this is true. It's a big deal. So we're going to kind of start talking about, I want to hear the question of like, what does it look like for you sometimes when you're walking your kiddo through the big emotion?
of the quiet emotions and holding your own. Yeah. Okay, so I was thinking about this going into our this episode, right. And so I think like totally transparently, what happens for me when I have a big emotion is like my we talk about this sometimes ⁓ with parents that we work with, right? Like, so anger is both a primary emotion and a secondary emotion, right? So if you
feel ⁓ a deeper feeling a lot of the time, the safest way to express that is through anger because it is less vulnerable. So my like, often kind of my go to is this, it's, it's called in our world passive aggressive, right. And so I have the example, like if parents I work with all the time, is I have this first passive aggressive kind of ⁓
bent, where like I'll walk in the house. And my kids have been home. So I have an 11 year old and 13 year old. And they're both girls. And so I'll walk in the house and they just have like, like goldfish wrappers, like like the little pre package. Or and so guys, I'm telling you something about myself, right? Like as much as I would love to tell you that my kids are only allowed to eat like sliced. ⁓
Yeah, oranges and ⁓ bell peppers, you know, for snacks. That's not true. Like sometimes they have the prepackaged goldfish and pretzels. ⁓ And so they'll have goldfish wrappers on them on the like coffee table and seven cups each are out and like a root beer can and they know they're not supposed to eat and drink in the living room and
So I walk in the house and I'm immediately irritated because they have pushed the boundary because I wasn't home and they haven't picked up after themselves, right? So all of these things are immediately irritating, but really they're not irritating. They feel hurtful if I slow it down, right? But my cover emotion is irritated. And so the words that come out of my mouth are, girls, I'm so glad I'm home to pick up after you.
this is my favorite thing to do at the end of the day. Which we would call sarcasm. Exactly. And so I walk around with a big smile on my face picking up cups and trash and saying, I'm so glad I'm home to take care of this for you. And so my words don't match my face and my tone doesn't match how I feel, which leads them to be confused and whatever. Right. So realistically, what I should be saying for the 49,000th time is
girls, it's pretty frustrating when I get home and you haven't followed any instructions that it added. So, ⁓ I think the reason that I start with this story is to say that we don't always do this beautifully. So Megan and I have degrees in this, in this, and we've been doing it like most of you for many years and we still don't always get it right.
we're gonna walk through like some ways to do it better and want you to know that it's okay to mess it up. And, and it's repairable. Yeah. think in a lot of ways, more about that. Not that like, want to like walk in and be like, I'm being ultra bitch today. That's not what I'm saying. But I think it's part of being human, right? Like it's part of so like mine on the contrary is ⁓
I like shut down at first, so when I'm overwhelmed, I like shut down and say nothing. And then I, and so I'm just like literally say nothing and walk through the mess and go to my room and put all my stuff down.
And then I walk out and I try to be really calm and I say, hey, remember our rules. And then I met with attitude because I too, I just said I might have a fortune. And I got three of them. And so then I get really big. And so mine becomes loud, right? And so it's not that I'm saying like I want to be mean to my kids, but I think it's important when we do our human make mistakes, do the things that we can get to come back and teach our kids.
about repairing relationships. I love attachment stuff. It's like where I live all the time. And one of my favorite phrases from that is ⁓ rupture repair. And so it's the idea that not if we rupture a relationship, it's when we rupture a relationship that we then get to be so intentional repairing. And those repairs are actually what causes safer attachment and safer security for the relationship. And so I do think
it's really important as parents that we can recognize when we make mistakes and we can return to them because that teaches our kids so much more than just like having that conversation with them of like, okay, you did this and then we have to do this and then that, It models that and it creates so much more safety and skill building. And so it's super important to me that idea. Yeah. Well, I think in like removes the idea that they can be perfect all the time.
Yes. Or that the expectation is to be perfect all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think the other thing is like, if I'm feeling really hurt or really attacked, then I completely shut down. and it becomes like tears and I have to stop talking because I, I think I know the words that are going to come out of my mouth are going to be hurtful.
⁓ and they're not going to make any sense. So, ⁓ I have a, like a real, a real quick story. Like I, ⁓ so I was at lunch with my family. So my parents and my girls and, ⁓ my oldest was asking for a pet, more pets. Right. So I.
have, there's a thing about being a therapist. And the thing is that you take care of people all day, right? And so you get home, you're kind of emotionally depleted. And I enjoy animals. I, there's a thing about me that may make it so that people don't love me. I, I love dogs. I don't want to have a dog because I take care of people all day long. ⁓
like critters, Like rodents, lizards, spiders, snakes. Like I don't really want to have one to care for in my home. And I have kids who love pets. They love animals. And at their dad's house, they get to have lots of animals around all the time. And so they're always asking me to have more animals at my house.
And so we're at lunch with my parents and my 13 year old is kind of railing on me about like, why don't we have more pets? And I said very calmly, babe, I don't want to have for like, again, the 40,000th time, right? I don't want to have another thing to take care of. And she says what every kid says, which is guess. What?
I will take care of it. yeah, they all say that. And then they don't. Yes. And so then it's another thing for you to take care of. And so I said, honey, we've said that before. And I end up being the one to have to take care of the pet. I don't want to take care of another pet. I take care of people all day long. And she said, you chose your job.
And for some reason it hit me like a Mack truck, right? And so I just like turned and made eye contact with my mom. Like, I feel like I just got hit by a bat and my mom was so sweet. And I just like turned away from all of the people with my face and just let tears run down the front of my face. And my mom handled it with my kiddo and was like, you know,
Sometimes you think it's a really, it sounds really fun and really wonderful to go swimming and swimming is really great and it is fun, but when you've been doing it for 12 hours in a row, you're very tired and you don't want to get out of the pool and go inside and then swim some more. And so she handled it really beautifully. Yeah, it was awesome and it was very helpful. So again, with our like community thing about how it's really helpful to have people to help support you. ⁓ but just the example of like in the moment there, couldn't.
I couldn't participate in the conversation anymore because I was emotionally spent. Like that was a big emotion for me to just feel like so I think like our kids can say things that are kind of cutting and have no idea. Like she had no idea. You know, it's true, right? Right. It technically true. It is true. I did choose my job and I love my job. I do love my job. yeah, anyway. Well, I think that's a great point that kind of dives into a
that we
both believe in and we work hard to teach parents is like being able to recognize your own stuff when we're engaging in these conversations with our kids about emotions and pieces like that. And so I think one of the things that we talk about often is like we teach our kids to manage emotions and we label their emotions a lot and we try to hold their emotions a lot. But one of the big things that's important is like we have to know where we're at, right?
how full is our cup? We have to know how big does this sting for us ⁓ so that we can, I use the word respond instead of react to our kids. And so like, and giving ourselves space for that. And so I think that story not only illustrates Katie of like how, when it did stink so much, you had a choice, right? You had a choice to like totally react and become like super overwhelmed and emotional and say the things.
choice to respond, which meant just taking a beat, right? And like letting it sit for a moment. and then like circling back to that conversation. Cause I do think we have that privilege as parents, ⁓ to have that space. And I do think that's super important. Yeah. Yeah. Because, know, if I were honest and I said what probably would have come out of my mouth if I kept engaging with her would have been something like, you have no freaking idea how hard that it added up, right? ⁓
or, you know, yeah, I picked my job, but I picked it because we have bills to pay. it would have been 100 miles an hour. And it probably would have been something like, you're so ungrateful, or you're so entitled, or something like that, that I think we all have these moments of, I'm in pain, and so I'm gonna lash back. And so then if we take a second, breathe.
get centered and figure out like, is actually the message here? What are they? What are they looking for? Like, what is this kid missing? And then how do I teach it from a calm place, rather than a hurt place? Like, how do I settle my nervous system so that then I can teach it? ⁓ And it, and it took me pro and and again,
No one does this 100 % all the time. Well, I mean, this is a moment that I did well that I'm walking you all through, but it not you know, I don't want to give the impression that this is always how these things go. So anyway, I circled back probably like it took me a good 30 minutes to settle enough and work myself through like, okay, what does she need here?
and I was able to have a conversation with her later. She saw me be upset and later apologized and I explained to her that no one that you have a relationship with is going to be able to give you all of the things that you want in life and everybody that you have a relationship with is gonna have some trade-offs, including your parents.
And so you may not love the job that I have, ⁓ but it has given us a lot of things like the ability to talk to each other in a way that a lot of parents and kids can't. ⁓ It's given us the ability to ⁓ have a really wonderful lifestyle. It's given me the ability to be at a lot of events that a lot of parents can't. It's given me the ability to drop you off and pick you up from school.
There's a lot of things about my job that are really wonderful. It lets me help families, like all these things, right? I can walk her through them. And on the flip side, there are some things you don't love about it and we have to accept all of it together.
One, just want to highlight the steps. So I'm a bullet point kind of person. And that I think can be really helpful for parents as we're sitting in these big motions, especially with our older kids who can have some of these really good conversations. Yeah, that's a point. Is one, identifying where I'm at, recognizing like.
Am I exhausted? Like in my house, we don't have any conversation after 8 30. That's good. Because mama can't handle that. like recognizing where I am at ⁓ physically, emotionally, is this triggering for me? Is it hard? Why is it hard? So having a really good awareness. And then the next thing you did, Katie was like, be curious. Like what does my kiddo need here? What are the things that she is asking for or desiring from this request or from this big emotion? And then how do I support her? And then the other
pieces where you look to connect with her, right? And so having those conversations of like, hey, girlfriend, this is the good things and like being able to lean in and connecting with her is so helpful for our kids. We often say, ⁓ connect before we correct, right? We can't correct our kiddos until they feel seen and heard and connected with us. And then the last piece is like filling your cup, but you actually did that first, right? Because you paused and said, I can't do this right now. I need a moment to regulate.
myself and to move through this. So I think those four pieces are so helpful for us as parents when we're even talking about how do we engage with these conversations with our kids. Yeah, that's good. That's what that's, those are really good. Okay, so run through those again real fast, right? So it's, so it's recognized where I'm at. Be curious about what's happening with my kiddo. Look to connect.
making sure I'm filling my own cup. Okay, that's, that's super helpful. I like those, like the bullet pointing is genius. That's brilliant. Okay, so one of the things I would love to hear from you, because this is an area that you're really educated about that I have less understanding about. But like when, when we're talking about because we've talked a lot about teenagers, right? So let's talk about the little bitties, the little bitties and how they learn from
the mamas because you have a good background in like infant development and mental health. So how does all that work? So we are all programmed to read other people's emotions and be able to connect with them. And so like emotions are
Indicators like they're indicators for all of us. They're indicators for us individually with ours But they're also indicators that we read from other people, right? And so when our babies are born
they're itty-bitty, they actually think they're a part of us, right? They don't understand like mama baby. They think they're just a complete extension of us. And so that's actually super powerful and can feel like a huge weight sometimes as a mama or as a primary caregiver. But I think it's a beautiful weight that we have. So we have these things that are called mirror neurons. And what mirror neurons do, I'm a nerd, I really like the science. So was actually discovered in the 90s
experience in Italy with monkeys. And so what they realized is what mere neurons do is they help us learn, but they are the things that help a baby specifically as humans. help us to understand and read other people's and we actually have the same neurological response as a person that we are looking at, right? So if I'm when I was holding my itty-bitties, right, and I'm smiling and I'm laughing, I'm tickling their toes, I'm having chemical response in my brain.
our babies are actually having the exact same because they are so attuned to us and connected with us. And that's what's happening. So it's a really, really cool, it's an amazing process that happens. But what it really does is it teaches our kids how to see emotions, how to read emotions, and how to experience emotions. And so as they get older and older, right, they start to learn like, ⁓ that's mama, I'm a baby. One of the reasons we had such big separation anxiety.
for all our kids, which is a normal happenstance, is because they realize that they're separated, right? They realize that mama exists when she's not in the room with me or mama exists when she's not holding me. And so that's a super typical thing. But that's also when our kiddos emotions will start to shift and they actually need more help regulating those emotions because they're having to learn to do it independently. what age do we shift from I'm a separate human than mama?
I have different emotions than mama. need more help developing my or managing my emotions. Like when does all that happen? Yeah, so that tip. there's a reason to call it like terrible twos and in three majors like because that's when all that's happening, right? And so it's really they are learning and realizing like, oh,
There's I'm a different person like I can do something that makes me happy and that doesn't mama doesn't have to see or if this makes me angry and mama did it right and so they are able to start doing that and that's why we see these giant emotions from our kiddos is because I Tell parents all the time like there's a reason we use the word feelings Our little ones are literally feeling it all over their body. Like there's not a separation genuinely between like
the emotional we're using for happy or sad and the experience they're having their body when they're so little right and so like I like my favorite age in the whole world it's like three-year-old and I love them because when I like hang out them or when I work with them it's like you know exactly what they're experiencing in that moment right when they are happy it is written all over their bodies they jump yeah they're wiggling they're jumping they're all excited right I mean when they are mad man their whole bodies tell
And I love that, but I also think we have to need to remember that as grown-ups We get to an age where we get really good at shutting it down, right? I'm sad don't have the moment for it. Shut it down, Little ones can't do that. Yeah Super obviously I love it but like helping them to to shape that is such a privilege we have Yeah, parents and caregivers. Yeah, that's true. That's We
One of the things we talk about when we work with kids is sometimes like with the littles, we give them like a, maybe if they're like five, we give them a crayon, right? And we tell them like, okay, so pick a color for happy and then color, like we get, we like outline their body. And then we have them color, like, where do you feel when you feel happy? Show me where you feel it. And we have them color it in and like anger. They almost always pick red. Right. And then they color their hands and feet and face.
almost always, right? Because the theory is there, right? Like when they're angry, they want to like swing at something or grab something or hit somebody, right? Bite somebody, kick somebody. I just love it because it's it's raw, you know, it's like, it's unfiltered. It's just real. It is real. You know? Yeah. And so helping parents shape that, right? That's the important thing. ⁓ And so emotions are just that. They're indicators, right?
full truths and we're experiencing them. so helping our kiddos move through that is super helpful and important and can be so overwhelming. So overwhelming. Okay. So let's talk about how we do help them through it then, right? And, and at the different ages. So, ⁓ so I guess let's start with like anger, right?
you know, so when they're little, ⁓ and if they're not, I remember a time I had, and this is, I remember it probably because it shows up in my like time hop in Facebook, but I, and I have a picture of my kiddo in the back seat and she's so mad at me because she was telling me that one plus one is three. And I just like, I have this thing about like, don't, I don't want to just agree with them to just agree with them.
And so I was like, no, honey, one plus one is two. And she was so mad at me because she wanted it to be three. She wanted to be right. Yeah. And she wanted to like, tell me something I didn't know. was excited to tell me some math things. ⁓ And so if you so some things that make little is angry. Yeah.
Right? Like somebody took my block. Yeah, I don't get the purple plate when I want the purple plate for dinner. I want to have a cookie right now. Right. You gave me juice in the wrong sippy cup. I can't watch my show for the billionth time. The same episode. Yeah. That's funny. We thought the same thing. Mm hmm. Yeah. I have to go to bed.
Yeah, ever. Ever. I have to brush my teeth. Shocker. Yep. I have to take a bath. All the things, right? are normal. And these are totally normal things to get mad at. I think, so then what do do with it? Right?
Every kid's different. I have three. All three of their mabs looked very different. My oldest, used to call him a firecracker. Well, he still is. So he is calm as cucumber. But then the moment he is mad, there's literally no built. And all of a sudden, when we were five, screaming and rolling on the floor, and we literally cannot tell you why, for the most part. Because when you have men, it gets super mad. And then I have my youngest.
is so calm and then when he gets mad all of a sudden he's crying. cries. He cries. But you can like see the build very distinctly. But I think it's like how do I... that space of like I as a parent
don't have to control it. don't have to fix it. I just want to my kid a tool in it. Yeah. Like, let's be real, like I can't, if they want the purple plate, the purple plate's in the dishwasher. I'm not washing the plate to get it to. Yeah. I'm not, yeah. I'm not taking it out. But I can help them through it. Right. And sometimes helping them, helping them with the emotion. Right. And so it's, so I guess an example, right? Yeah. And this one's very steeply on. I don't know if you can tell. We have a lot of
arguments about purple plates in my head. This is awesome. And so, ⁓ cause I have one girl and two boys, so we had lots of blue plates and very few. ⁓ I see. She wanted a.
Purple plate. dinner. Yeah. Girlies. and so one of the things you can do is act like we call it act right and so Gary Landroth who is the father of play therapy, Katie and I both very much respect him. He came up with this thing so it's act and it's A is acknowledge a feeling, C is communicate a limit, and D is target an alternative right so like my five-year-old's losing her mind because she has to have a blue plate instead of purple one and so it's like I know you're really disappointed you don't get the plate you want right so I'm acknowledging your failing I'm can you
Tonight, we have blue plates. That can be my limit. It's as simple as this is the world we're in. And then my targeting the alternative is going to be creating a better option for her to express those emotions. So you can be sad and you can ask for me to hold your hand or you can ask for the fork you like. So getting your options. We're not saying you can't be something. I don't know about y'all, but the moment that
someone I really love, like if I come to Katie and I'm like crying for a day and she's like, Oh, don't worry, it's fine. Get over it. We got things. That does not make me feel better. Like I'm not getting over it. And so we don't need to like squash our kids feelings, but we do need to give them tools through it. Okay. So let's run through that one more time. it's, we say act it's A C T A being acknowledge the feeling C being communicate the limit.
T being target and alternative, right? So let's walk through, let's say, you know, kiddo is mad because you have gotten in the way or accidentally knocked over the blocks that they were, they were playing with stacking up. Okay. And so they pick up a block and throw it at you. So the response is something like, Ooh, I see that you're really mad. you're acknowledging the feeling and then the
communicate the limit is something like, I am not for hurting, or blocks are not for throwing, right? And the language sounds a little bit weird, because it's, we're trying to give like a limit of the universe, right? Like a rule of the universe. Or you could say, ⁓ please don't throw a block at me, right? Like if it feels a little bit more normal, if it feels a little bit more comfortable for you to say something that sounds like you, that's fine. ⁓ So I...
Ooh, you're really mad at me. ⁓ And then something like, please don't throw blocks, right? ⁓ You could say, you can stomp your feet instead, or let's rebuild the blocks together, right? But if it is, it's best if it can be something that also allows them to get that anger out. ⁓ Okay, so that's really helpful.
No, we didn't. We're good.
And I think with like our older kids, often, it's not...
The problem is not that they're expressing emotion, right? The problem is how they're expressing emotion, right? So I think like we can help shape that. And so I know ⁓ with my kids who are teens or tweens, we say all the time, it's not about what you say, it's about how you say it. And so what that means is like, yeah, you can totally tell me you had the worst day at school. You can totally tell me you're mad at me. You can say all the things. Like I have a no problem with
you saying the things or doing the things, it's a problem if the words that we're choosing to use or the tone of voice we're choosing to use, right? And so sometimes, and they're learning how to do that. Yes. Right? Yes. It's not, and I think that's a big piece, right? And so it's like, my tween comes to me and she is on fire.
She's on fire, gets off the bus, stopping, twerking, after school, she is like, brother.
won't leave me alone in school. He's too protective. Screaming at me, right? ⁓ And him in turn, he's right there. And all the things like she is so mad. And so for like, it's how do I shape that? Right? And so it's like taking a beat and like, Hey girlfriend, like you are mad. She's like so mad. He's so mean. He won't leave me alone. He's so protective. And so then it's like, okay, but you don't get to scream at him like that. Right? That's a lie. How can you tell him that kindly? Do you need my help?
Let's try again. Um, we do try again. Yes. Yes. It's my favorite. Yep. Um, and so then it's helping her to shape that and communicate what she needs from him. Right. He's not going to change. She's mad. Is y'all excited? She's mad because, he is over. He, she feels like overprotective because he's like watching out for her at school and like wants to know who her friends are. So cute. funny part of that is that she has a little brother that is one year younger and
Last year like at their school. I got reports from the teacher that she was like his mama bear ⁓ Like they had recess together and she was all up in his business and so this kind of hilarious that she is so mad This is hilarious. Big brother wants to protect her. It's sweet, but it's just it's very sweet Yeah, but it's teaching our kids like how do we say the things right and how do we spend how do we how are we able to stand in those? relationships and Protect them right important to be able to say this
things and one of the ways we learn that is by regulating our emotions is by being able to communicate that. yeah I mean and frankly like how many grown-ups do you know that really struggle with calmly saying what they need? mean half the time I have a hard time with that you know like I could take half an hour before I can say what I need calmly or gonna talk to my therapist first which is like frankly thank God.
for my therapist. Anyway, I was thinking about, you know, I have, obviously, I have similar experiences with my teenager. So I have a kid who loves to read and really takes really very good care of her books. And so little sister is a little bit ⁓ more freewheeling with her things than the older and so she she will say, Can I can I borrow this book? And older sister is like,
only if you don't touch the binding. Right. And then if she finds the book, like laying face open down somewhere, like the wheels come off. And so ⁓ we have to walk through it. Like I will say, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, try again. And then she's like, why is this book open that way? And I'm like, no, Okay. Try again. And so then she's like,
Why is this book open this way? Like try again until we finally get to sister it would be
Nice if you didn't leave books open this way. I'm like, beautiful. There it is. There it is. Right? Because if you think about like what kind of a grown up you're trying to raise, that's where we're going. That's what this is for. We're like, let's pick the kind of human that you're trying to raise and let's point our arrow there. That's it. Right. That's our north. That's our point north. That's where we're going. Yeah. And I think.
The beauty is like every household you get to decide those things for what your household looks like. Respect is a very important thing to my husband. It's a very important thing in our house, right? And in no way, or form.
Is disrespect allowed? so we, we all, him and I also talk a lot about like that. And I talk about like, what is disrespect? Right? How does that look? And how do we have, how do we set limits around that? Right? And so I think that's important. And like when kids get mad and they scream and they yell, right. And then we say very clearly, it's not about what you say. It's about how you say it. Do you need a beat to go chill so we can come back and actually have this conversation?
Right? And so I think you get to decide what that looks like for your house and being super, but it takes effort and intentionality. And I know that like Katie and I swim in this water all day. Like we do this for families all day long. So to go home and do it is not super out of the norm. But I would encourage y'all to like sit down and have some of these conversations with yourself and then with your partner or your co-parent who's raising these kids because it's important of like, are the things, how do
we want to help our kids communicate these emotions? How do we want to help our kids tolerate these emotions? Because it's going to be, it's going to happen. I would say the other thing, ⁓ right, for those of you who are parenting on your own, is to talk with your friends about it and like, you know, bounce ideas off of them and say, you know, this is, this is what happened in my house. This is how I handled it. ⁓ And to be open to them having ideas and feedback. ⁓ I recently had a situation and
I like, and this is what I said, and I told my kids, none of your business. my real good friend ⁓ was like, ooh, do you think perhaps that was a little rigid? And I was like, uh-oh, maybe. And I revisited it with my kids and was like, I just wasn't ready to share with you yet. So that was really helpful. OK, so if we talk about helping our kids learn to express other emotions besides anger.
What do you think that we should cover? think probably sadness. Fear. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to start that over again. Okay. So I think if we're talking about helping our kids learn how to express feelings besides anger, ⁓ one of the ones that adults, some of the ones that adults struggle with, knowing how to express well are
fear and sadness really, right? So if we think about adults being able to express emotions easily, it tends to be the more positive ones, right? So ⁓ if we think about helping kids get to a place where they can easily or maybe not easily, but appropriately express nervousness, fear and sadness, how do we want to equip our kids for that?
Yeah, ⁓ I think when we talk about all feelings, ⁓ they come in waves.
Right? Even if we think about the awesome feelings, the ones that we really enjoy, there's still waves, right? Like, I love to be excited. Like, I'm looking for my next excitement thing, but I'm never gonna live all in excitement. Like, it's gonna come and wave itself, right? And so even having that framework can be really helpful. ⁓ Of course you are sad. Of course this is scary. And it will pass, and that's okay.
And so one, as parents having that framework to be able to hold out for our kids and then two, encouraging those conversations. A lot of families, we just don't say these words in our culture. We don't talk about when we're sad. We don't talk about when we're scared. We don't talk about these things. And so having the ability to say that in your family, right? And so modeling that, like it's a big day at work. I a big presentation and you're doing your scared thing.
Right walking around the kitchen doing picking up all the things or whatever you're everything But even once you're recognizing that speaking into life around your kids, right? Oh, man. I am so nervous. I have a big old presentation. Mm-hmm, right that He starts opening the conversation. Right and so then it starts normalizing these things. So then when you're Seeing your kid do their nervous thing. Yeah, they're scared thing. You're saying you're nervous Yeah, yeah, and I think they the the
next step of that is not ⁓ then trying to fix it for them. Right. We were talking about not fixing. It's so hard when we just love them and we want them to feel comfy. Right. and not telling them like, don't be nervous. It's going to be fine. You've practiced so hard or you've prepared so well. right. So, or, don't be scared or,
don't be sad, right? There's a thing I think, so I just listened to an amazing podcast by with Mel Robbins, and I just said, I sent it to Megan, y'all. ⁓ And ⁓ they were talking about the struggle that that men have. And ⁓ there's a thing that happens, right, where we accidentally really impede the emotional development of boys ⁓ by telling them like, don't cry, don't be scared, don't be
Don't be nervous, don't be sad. And we tell them like, be strong, be brave. ⁓ And so it really stunts their emotional growth. ⁓ aside from that piece just with boys, I think the thing that feels really important is just allowing them to feel the feeling and just be with them in it. And so if you have kids ⁓ that look a little off that day, so just ask the question, how are you feeling? Or you seem sad.
or you seem nervous. ⁓ Do you want a hug? ⁓ Tell me what's going on, right? If they're older, if they're littler, we offer snugs, snugs, hugs, snuggles. ⁓ And just be with them, sit with them. ⁓
Yeah, I think being present is huge. And so part of the thing for...
that it's really hard for us to sit with our kiddos in emotions that are hard for us to feel. Right? And I think that is so true and that is okay as a parent, but just recognizing that. know that... ⁓
whatever you weren't given or weren't allowed in your own childhood, it's gonna be really hard for you then to unrecognize yourself and then allowing your kids. And that isn't in any way, shape or form like a knock on our childhood, right? But it's a recognizing of like, okay, this was really hard for my parents for whatever reason. So I have Dinka taught that. what are the things, how do I wanna be intentional about sitting in with my kids? And that's okay, giving ourselves that.
space and helping our kids in that. Parenting is so hard because we're always growing too. Right? Kids are imperfect, near, to point out like a lot of our own imperfections and our own shortcomings. And I think as parents, that doesn't mean that we like race to fix all the things, right?
But it's also like, just like we're saying, it's a race to sit with the things, just like we want to sit with our kids. Ooh, that's good. It's kind of off that podcast from Mel Brooks. I kind of stole one of the things he said, because I just loved it. Yeah. So let's give all the credit to Jason. Yeah. Pull that up so we can give. Do you want to see who it was so we can give credit for it? think I'll link to it.
Okay.
Meagan (47:17)
Hey y'all, I wanted to give you the podcast that I refer to. First of all, Mel Brooks is a comedian, not a podcast person. So the podcast is the Mel Robbins podcast, the real reason boys and men are quietly giving up in what they need. And her guest is Jason Wilson. We would highly recommend that. Hope y'all have a great day. I'll talk to you next time.
Meagan (47:42)
Hello. Welcome to our podcast. We need to cut all that. okay y'all. I'm having a really moment. My oldest is going to be 14 this weekend and this one is like hitting me harder for some reason. And here's the reason. ⁓ well I've been like reflecting on it of course, cause that's what we do all day. He's reflecting on all the things. ⁓ but
I think it's so hard because like I distinctly remember being 14. And so I think it's super weird when our kiddos get to the place where like we have memories about. And so it doesn't necessarily make me, it doesn't me fold. Also, I like live in my head that I'm like 25, very far from 25. But it's just so weird to like see him become an age that like, I loved eighth grade.
And so like I have all these really distinct memories of it and it's so fun and bizarre and sad all at same time, all the emotions, but it's just so funny. It's kind of where I'm at today in my head space.
favorite middle school boyfriend, who incidentally at this moment is my parents boss. Small world. I just think is so funny. But anyway, he's like the nicest guy. grew up to be a great human. So I just would like to say that I must have great taste from a very young age. So he, um,
So he played baseball in middle school and I played ⁓ soccer in middle school. And ⁓ I was in, so on the same weekend, I broke my elbow at my birthday party. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. And so my birthday party was at a skating rink. You know, yeah. Like so cool. Like we do. And he
like
broke his leg in some kind of a way and someone should send this to him because I thought it was just, you know, fate and the universe. course. We both broke a bone. On the same weekend while you're dating. While we were dating ⁓ in middle school. And I just remember in eighth grade, like having ⁓ this, like it was like,
It must have been the end of the year or something, but we got to go spend a bunch of time outside. was like, it wasn't a field day, but it was like one of those deals where it's like, there's no curriculum left. so we all get to be outside and I had crimped my hair. Oh my gosh. So was very cool. It was very cool. looking very good. Yeah. I'm sure my lip gloss was like super shiny. On point. Yeah. Too much eyeliner. know, way it goes. So good. Yes. And just thinking that I looked so
amazing
and I'm pretty sure that was very near the end of our relationship but those were just the days like running around with your friends and trying to figure out like how much this person likes that person. Yes and the notes passing notes. Exactly it was amazing. Yeah it was amazing and how big that whole world felt. Yes.
important those problems were all the time. Yeah. And I think that's it, right? Like I think that's why it's so funny and hard that my baby is going to be in there. So I think, yeah, that's a piece. He's there. I know. It's so weird. So fun. Cool. All right. Well, Katie, today what we're talking about, ⁓ are big emotions, which we know, ⁓ as humans and therapists is that it like starts.
way little and it doesn't necessarily stop for our kiddos ⁓ and ourselves. And so one of the big things that we want to really dive into today is how do we help our kids when they're having big emotions and how do we as parents regulate our big emotions in the midst of our kiddos big emotions? Yeah, it's big deal. So we're going to kind of start talking about, want to hear the question of like, what does it look like for you sometimes when
you're walking your kiddo through the big emotions, the quiet emotions, and holding your own. Yeah. Okay, so I was thinking about this going into our, episode, right? And so I think like totally transparent.
happens for me when I have a big emotion is like my we talk about this sometimes ⁓ with parents that we work with right like so anger is both a primary emotion and a secondary emotion right so if you feel ⁓
deeper feeling a lot of the time the safest way to express that is through anger because it is less vulnerable.
often kind of my go-to is this, it's called in our world passive aggressive, right? And so I have the example I give parents I work with all the time is I have this first passive aggressive kind of ⁓ bent where like I'll walk in the house and my kids have been home. So I have an 11 year old and 13 year old and they're both girls. And so I'll walk in the house and they just have like, like goldfish wrappers, like, like the little prepackaged
Or, and so guys, I'm telling you something about myself, right? Like as much as I would love to tell you that my kids are only allowed to eat like sliced. ⁓ Oranges? Organic oranges? bell peppers, you know, for snacks. That's not true. Sometimes they have pre-packaged goldfish and pretzels. ⁓
And so they'll have goldfish wrappers on the on the like coffee table and seven cups each are out and like a root beer can and they know they're not supposed to eat and drink in a living room. And so I walk in the house and I'm immediately irritated because they have pushed the boundary because I wasn't home and they haven't picked up after themselves. Right. Yes. So all of these things are immediately irritating, but really they're not irritating. They feel.
hurtful if I slow it down. But my cover emotion is irritated. And so the words that come out of my mouth are
I'm so glad I'm home to pick up after you. This is my favorite thing to do at the end of the day. Which we would call sarcasm. Yeah. Exactly. And so I walk around with a big smile on my face picking up cups and trash and saying, I'm so glad I'm home to take care of this for you. Um, and so my words don't match my face and my tone doesn't match how I feel, which leads them to be confused and whatever. Right. So realistically, what I should be saying for the 49,000th time is,
is,
girls, it's pretty frustrating when I get home and you haven't followed any instructions, da da da da da.
So I think the reason that I start with this story is to say that we don't always do this beautifully. So Megan and I have degrees in this and we've been doing it like most of you for many years and we still don't always get it right. So we're gonna walk through some ways to do it better and want you to know that it's okay to mess it up.
Yes, and it's important to mess it up I think in a lot of ways And not that like I want to like walk in and be like, I'm being ultra bitch today That's not what I'm saying at all so I can fix it But I think it's part of being human right like it's part of so like mine on the contrary is ⁓ I like shut down at first so when I'm overwhelmed I like shut down and say nothing and then
I, and so I'm just like, literally say nothing and walk through the mess and go to my room and put all my stuff down. And then I walk out and I try to be really calm and I say, hey, remember our rules. And then I met with attitude because I too, I just said I have, I'm about to have a fortune and I got three of them. And so then I get really big and so mine becomes loud, right? And so it's not that I'm saying like I want to be
mean to my kids, but I think it's important when we do our human make mistakes, do the things that we can get to come back and teach our kids about repairing relationships. I love attachment stuff. It's like where I live all the time. And one of my favorite phrases from that is, ⁓ rupture repair. And so it's the idea that not if we rupture a relationship, it's when we rupture a relationship that we then
get to be so intentional repairing and those repairs are actually what causes safer attachment and safer security for the relationship. And so I do think it's really important as parents that we can recognize when we make mistakes and we can return to them because that teaches our kids so much more than just like.
having that conversation with them of like, okay, you did this and then we have to do this and then that right. It models that and it creates so much more safety and skill building. And so it's super important to me that idea.
is the idea that they can be perfect all the time. Or that the expectation is to be perfect all the time.
I think the other thing is like, if I'm feeling really hurt or really attacked, then I completely shut down. it becomes like tears and I have to stop talking because I, I think I know the words that are going to come out of my mouth are going to be hurtful. ⁓ and they're not going to make any sense. So, ⁓ I have a, like a real, a real quick story. Like I, ⁓ so I was at lunch with my family.
So my parents and my girls and my oldest
was asking for a pet, more pets, right? So I have, there's a thing about being a therapist, and the thing is that you take care of people all day, right? And so you get home, you're kind of emotionally depleted. And I enjoy animals. There's a thing about me that...
may make it so that people don't love me. I love dogs. I don't want to have a dog because I take care of people all day long. Like critters, Like rodents, lizards, spiders, snakes. I don't really want to have one to care for in my home. ⁓ And I have kids who love...
They love animals. And at their dad's house, they get to have lots of animals around all the time. And so they're always asking me to have more animals at my house. And so we're at lunch with my parents and my 13 year old is kind of railing on me about like, why don't we have more pets? And I said very calmly, babe, I don't want to have for like, again,
in the 40,000th I don't want to have another thing to take care of. And she says what every kid says, which is, guess. What? I will take care of it. Oh yeah, they all say that. And then they don't. Yes. And so then it's another thing for you to take care of. And so I said.
Honey, we've said that before and I end up being the one to have to take care of the pet. I don't want to take care of another pet. I take care of people all day long. And she said, you chose your job. And for some reason it hit me like a Mack truck, right? And so I just like turned and made eye contact with my mom like.
I like I just got hit by a bat. And my mom was so sweet. And I just like turned away from all of the people with my face and just let tears run down the front of my face. And my mom handled it with my kiddo and was like, you know, sometimes you think it's a really, it sounds really fun and really wonderful to go swimming and swimming is really great. And it is fun when you've been doing it for 12 hours in a
very tired and you don't want to get out of the pool and go inside and then swim some more. And so she handled it. Great analogy. Yeah, it was awesome and it was very helpful. So again, with our like community thing about how it's really helpful to have people to help support you. ⁓ just the example of like in the moment there, I couldn't I couldn't participate in the conversation because I was emotionally spent like that was a big emotion for me to just feel like so
I think like our kids can say things that are kind of cutting and have no idea. No. it's true, right? Like I mean it is technically true. it's not like she's being... did choose my job. I love my job. Yes. I do love my job. yeah. Well, I think that's a great point that kind of dives into one of the things that we...
both believe in and we work really hard to teach parents is like being able to recognize your own stuff when we're engaging in these conversations with our kids about emotions and pieces like that. And so I think one of the things that we talk about often is like we teach our kids to manage emotions and we label their emotions a lot and we try to hold their emotions a lot. But one of the big things that's important is like we have to know where we're at.
We have to know how full is our cup. We have to know how big does this sting for us so that we can, I use the words, respond instead of react to our kids. And so like, and giving ourselves space for that. And so I think that story not only illustrates Katie of like how, when it did sting so much.
you had a choice, right? You had a choice to like totally react and become like super overwhelmed and emotional and say the things, or you had a choice to respond, which meant just taking a beat, right? And like letting it sit for a moment. ⁓ and then like circling back to that conversation later. Cause I do think we have that privilege as parents, ⁓ to have that space. And I do think that's super important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know, if I were honest and
something like you have no freaking idea how hard...
Yeah, I picked my job, but I picked it because we have bills to pay. ⁓ All the things. And it would have been a hundred miles an hour. And it probably would have been something like, you're so ungrateful or, you you're so entitled or, you know, something like that. But that I think we all have these moments of I'm in pain and so I'm going to lash back. Yes. You know. And so then if we take a second, breathe, get centered and fix
out what is actually the message here? What are they looking for? What is this kid missing? And then how do I teach it from a calm place rather than a hurt place? How do I settle my nervous system so that then I can teach it? And it took me, and again, no one does this
100 % all the time well. I mean, this is a moment that I did well that I'm walking y'all through but it, you know, I don't want to give the impression that this is always how these things go. So anyway, I circled back probably like
It took me a good 30 minutes to settle enough and work myself through like, okay, what does she need here? And I was able to have a conversation with her later. You know, she saw me be upset and later apologized and I explained to her that no one that you have a relationship with is going to be able to give you all of the things that you want in life and everybody that you have a relationship with is going to have some trade-off.
including your parents. Yeah. And so you may not love the job that I have, but it has given us a lot of things like the ability to talk to each other in a way that a lot of parents and kids can't. Yeah. It's given us the ability to have
wonderful lifestyle. It's given me the ability to be at lot of events that a lot of parents can't. It's given me the ability to drop you off and pick you up from school. There's a lot of things about my job that are really wonderful. lets me help families. Like all these things, right? I can walk you through them. And on the flip side, there are some things you don't love about it and we have to accept all of it together.
Yeah. Well, and I just want to highlight kind of the steps. I'm a, I'm a bullet point kind of person that, and that I think can be really helpful for parents as we're sitting in these big emotions, especially with our older kids who's like, can have some of these really good conversations, right? Is like one identifying where I'm at, recognizing like, ⁓ am I exhausted? Like in my house, we don't have any conversation after eight 30. I'm going be super honest, like because
Mama can't handle that. like recognizing where I am at, ⁓ physically, emotionally, is this triggering for me? Is it hard? Why is it hard? So having that really good awareness. And then the next thing you did, Katie was like, be curious. Like what does my kiddo need here? What are the things that she is asking for or desiring from this request or from this big emotion? and then how do I support her? And then the other pieces were you look to connect with her, right? And so having those conversations of like, Hey girlfriend,
this is the good things and like being able to lean in and connecting with her is so helpful for our kids. We often say ⁓ connect before we correct, right? We can't correct our kiddos until they feel seen and heard and connected with us. And then the last piece is like filling your cup, which you actually did that first, right? Because you paused and said, I can't do this right now. I need a moment to regulate myself and to move through this. So I think those four pieces are so helpful.
for us as parents when we're even talking about how do we engage with these conversations with our kids?
So run through those again real fast, right? So it's recognize where I'm at, ⁓ be curious about what's happening with my kiddo, look to connect, and then making sure I'm filling my own cup. Okay, that's super helpful. Like the bullet pointing is genius. That's brilliant. Okay, so...
One of the things that I would love to hear from you, because this is an area that you're really educated about that I have less understanding about, but like when we're talking about, because we've talked a lot about teenagers, right? So let's talk about the little bitties, the little bitties and how they learn from the mamas, because you have a good background in like infant development and mental health. So how does all that work? So we are all programmed
to read other people's emotions and be able to connect with them. so like emotions are ⁓ indicators. Like they're indicators for all of us. They're indicators for us individually with ours, but they're also indicators that we read from other people, right? And so when our babies are born, the moment they're itty bitty, they actually think they're a part of us, right? So they don't understand like mama baby. They think they're just complete extension of us. And so that's actually super powerful.
⁓ and can feel like a huge weight sometimes ⁓ as a mama or as primary caregiver. But I think it's a beautiful weight that we have. So we have these things that are called mirror neurons. And what mirror neurons do, ⁓ it was, I'm a nerd, I really like the science. So was actually discovered in the 90s, an experiment in Italy with monkeys. And so what they realized is what mirror neurons do is they help us learn.
but they are the things that help a baby specifically as humans. help us to understand and read other people's and we actually have the same neurological response as that person that we are looking at, right? So if I'm, when I was holding my itty bitties, right? And I'm smiling and I'm laughing and I'm tickling their toes, I'm having chemical response in my brain and our babies are actually having the exact same because they are so attuned to us and connected with us.
that that's what's happening. So it's a really, really cool, it's an amazing process that happens. But what it really does is it teaches our kids how to see emotions, how to read emotions, ⁓ and how to experience emotions. And so as they get older and older, right, they start to learn, like, ⁓ that's mama, I'm a baby. One of the reasons we had such big separation anxiety for all of our kids, which is a normal happenstance.
is because they realize that they're separated, right? They realize that mama exists when she is not in the room with me or mama exists when she's not holding me. And so that's a super typical thing, but that's also when our kiddos' emotions will start to shift and they actually need more help regulating those emotions because they're having to learn to do it independently. So what age?
Yeah, so that tip so we there's a reason we call it like terrible twos and in three majors like cuz that's when all that's happening Right. And so it's really they are learning and realizing like ⁓ wait There's I'm a different person like I can do something that makes me happy and that doesn't mama doesn't have to see or if this makes me Angry and mama did it,
And so they are able to start doing that. And that's why we see these giant emotions from our kiddos is because I tell parents all the time, like there's a reason we use the word feelings. Our little ones are literally feeling it all over their body. Like there's not a separation genuinely between like the emotional world we're using for happy or sad and the experience they're having in their body when they're so little. Right. And so like
I like my favorite age in the whole world is like three year old, Joe. And I love them because when I like hang out with them or when I work with them, it's like, you know exactly what they're experiencing in that moment, right? When they are happy, it is written all over their bodies. Their bodies are wiggling. Yeah, they're wiggling. They're jumping. They're all excited, right? And when they are mad, man, their whole bodies tell you. And I love that. But I also think we often need to remember that as grownups.
we get to an age where we get really good at shutting it down, right? So like, I'm sad, don't have the moment for it, shut it down, right? Little ones can't do that. And I think that is super, obviously I love it, but like helping them to shape that is such a privilege we have as parents and caregivers.
Maybe if they're like five, we give them a crayon, right? Tell them.
Okay, so pick a color for happy and then color like we get we like outline their body and then we have them color like where do you feel? Yeah, you feel happy show me where you feel it and have them color it in and like anger they almost always pick red. yeah, right And then they color their hands and feet and face. Yep, almost always right because ⁓ The theory is there right like when they're angry they want to like swing at something. Yeah, grab something or hit something somebody
Yeah, right bite somebody kick somebody. Yes. I just love it because it's raw. You know, it's unfiltered. It's just real. It is real Yeah, and so helping parents Shape that right? That's the important thing ⁓ And so emotions are just that they're indicators, right? They're not like full truth and we're experiencing them and so helping our kiddos
Move through that is super helpful and important and can be so overwhelming Okay, so let's talk about how we do help them through it then right and at the different ages. Yeah so So I guess let's start with like anger, right?
you know, so when they're little, and if they're not, I remember a time I had, and this is, I remember it probably because it shows up in my time hop in Facebook, but I have a picture of my kiddo in the backseat and she's so mad at me because she was telling me that one plus one is three. And I just, I have this thing about it.
I don't want to just agree with them. Yeah. To just agree with them. And so I was like, no, honey, one plus one is two. And she was so mad at me because she wanted it to be three. You're ruining her world. Yeah. And she wanted to like, tell me something I didn't know. Yeah. She was excited. She was excited to tell me some math things.
And so, if you sew some things to make Littles angry. Yeah. Right? Like somebody took my block. Yeah. I don't get the purple plate when I want the purple plate for dinner. I want to have a cookie right now. Right this very second. You gave me juice in the wrong sippy cup. I can't watch my show for the billionth time. Same episode. episode. Yeah. Same episode. Same thing. Yeah. I have to go to bed. Yeah.
Ever. Ever. I have to brush my teeth. Shocker. Yep. Yeah. All the things, right? That are normal. I mean, those are totally normal things to get mad at. And I think, so then what do we do with it? Right? And so every kid's different, right? I got three. They're all three of their mads looked very different. ⁓ My oldest, used to call him a firecracker. Well, he still is, right? So he is like calm as cucumber.
But then the moment he is mad, there's like literally no build. And all of a sudden we are, when we were five, screaming, rolling on the floor, like, we literally have, cannot tell you why, right? For the most part, because he just, when he got mad, gets super mad. ⁓ and then I have, my youngest is so calm. And then when he gets mad, all of a sudden he's crying and we're like, he cries, but you can like see the build, very, very distinctly. ⁓ but I think it's like, how do I,
That space of like, I as a parent don't have to control it. I don't have to fix it. I just want to give my kid a tool in it. Right? Like, let's be real. Like, I can't, if they want the purple plate and the purple plate's in the dishwasher, I'm not washing the plate to get it to them, right? I'm not fixing that. ⁓ But I can help them through it, right? And sometimes helping them with the emotion, right? And so,
It's so I guess an example, right? And this one's very stinking clean on mine. I don't know if you can tell. We had a lot of arguments about purple plates in my house. And so, cause I have one girl and two boys. So we had lots of blue plates and very few purple, right? It's a, she wanted a purple plate for dinner, right? Girlie. and so one of the things you can do is act like we call it act, right? And so Gary Landroth, who is the father of play therapy,
Katie and I both very much respect him. He came up with this thing. So it's act and it's A is acknowledge a feeling. C is communicate a limit and T is target an alternative. Right? So like my five year old's losing her mind cause she has to have a blue plate instead of a purple one. And so it's like, I know you're really disappointed. You don't get the plate you want. Right? So I'm acknowledging your failing. I'm communicating limit. Tonight we have blue plates, right? That can be my limit. It's as simple as like, this is the world we're in. Right?
And then my targeting the alternative is going to be creating a better option for her to express those motions. Right? So you can be sad and you can ask for me to hold your hand or you can ask for the fork you like. Right? Like, so I'm giving her options. We're never, we're not saying you can't be something. I don't know about y'all, but like the moment that someone I really love, like if I come to Katie and I'm like crying for a day and she's like, don't worry. It's fine. Get over it. We got things.
That does not make me feel better. Like I'm not getting over it. And so we don't need to like squash our kids feelings, but we do need to give them tools through it.
we say act it's a c t a being acknowledge the feeling see being communicate the limit t being target and alternative right so let's walk through let's say you know kiddo is mad because you have gotten in the way or accidentally knocked over the blocks that they were they were playing with stacking up
And so they pick up a block and throw it at you. So the response is something like, ooh, I see that you're really mad. So you're acknowledging the feeling.
And then the communicate the limit is something like, I am not for hurting. Blocks are not for throwing. And the language sounds a little bit weird because we're trying to give a limit of the universe, a rule of the universe. Or you could say, ⁓ please don't throw a block at me. If it feels a little bit more normal, if it feels a little bit more comfortable for you to say something that sounds like you, that's fine. ⁓
I, ooh, you're really mad at me. and then something like, please don't throw blocks, right? ⁓ you could say, you can stomp your feet instead, or let's rebuild the blocks together. Right. But if it is, it's, it's best if it can be something that also, ⁓ allows them to get that anger out. Yeah. ⁓ okay. So that's really helpful.
⁓ And I think with like our older kids, often, ⁓ it's not, the problem is not that they're expressing emotion, right? It's a problem is how they're expressing the emotion, right? And so I think like we can help shape that. And so I know ⁓ with my kids who are teens or tweens, ⁓ we say all the time, it's not about
what you say, it's about how you say it. And so what that means is like, yeah, you can, you can totally tell me you had the worst day at school. You can totally tell me you're mad at me. You can say all the things like I have a no problem with you saying the things or doing the things. It's a problem if the words that we're choosing to use or the tone of voice we're choosing to use. Right. And so sometimes and
they're learning how to do that. Right. And so it's not, and I think that's the big piece, right? And so it's like, my tween comes to me and she is on fire. She is on fire. Gets off the bus, stomping, torquing, ⁓ after school. And she is like, brother won't leave me alone at school. He's too productive.
Like she's screaming at me, right? And him in turn, he's right there. She and all the things like she is so mad. And so for like, it's how do I shape that? Right? And so it's like taking a beat and like, Hey girlfriend, like you are mad. Yes, I'm so mad. He's so mean. He won't leave me alone. He's so over protective. And so then it's like, okay, but you don't get to scream at him like that. Right? Like that's okay. You can be mad. How can you tell him that kindly? Do you need my help? Let's try again. ⁓ We do try again.
All the time. Yes. It's my favorite. Yep. And so then it's helping her to shape that and communicate what she needs from him, right? He's not going to change. She's mad. This y'all side note. She's mad because he is over. He, she feels like overprotective because he's like watching out for her at school and like wants to know who her friends are. ⁓ The funny part of that is that she has a little brother that is one year younger and ⁓ last year like at their school.
I got reports from the teacher that she was like his mama bear, like totally all in all of his world. Like they had a recess together and she was all up in his business. And so it's this kind of hilarious that she is so mad that big brother wants to protect her. It's sweet, but it's just so funny. Yeah. But it's teaching our kids like, how do we say the things right. And how do we, and how do we, how are we able to stand in those relationships and protect them, right? Cause it is important to be able to say the things and
One of the ways we learn that is by regulating our emotions, is by being able to communicate that.
struggle with calmly saying what they need. mean, me. have a hard time with that. You know, like I could take half an hour before I can say what I calmly. Or I'm to talk to my therapist first, is like, frankly, thank God for my therapist. Anyway, I was thinking about, you know, I have, obviously I have similar experiences with my
teenagers. So I a kid who loves to read and really takes really very good care of her books. And so little sister is a little bit ⁓ more freewheeling with her things than the older and she she will say, Can I borrow this book? And older sister is like, only if you don't touch the binding, right? And then if she finds the book like laying face open, down
somewhere like the wheels come off. Yeah. And so we have to walk through it. Like I will say, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, try again. And then she's like, Why is this book open that way? And I'm like, Okay, try again. And so then she's like, Why is this book open this way? Like, try again, until we finally get to
Sister, it would be nice if you didn't leave books open this way. Beautiful. There it is. There it is. Right? Because if you think about what kind of a grown-up you're trying to raise, that's where we're going. Yep. That's all this is for. That's what this is for. We're like, let's pick the kind of human that you're trying to raise and let's point our arrow there. That's it. Right? That's our north. That's our point north. That's where we're going. Yeah.
And I think the beauty is like every household, you get to decide those things for what your household looks like. Respect is a very important thing to my husband. It's a very important thing in our house, right? And in no way, or form is disrespect allowed. so we, but we all, him and I also talk a lot about like dad and I talk about like, is disrespect, right? How does that look and how do we have
⁓ How do we set limits around that? Right? And so I think that's important. like my kids get mad and they scream and they yell. Right? And then we say very clearly, it's not about what you say, it's about how you say it. Do you need a beat to go chill so we can come back and actually have this conversation? Right? And so I think you get to decide what that looks like for your house and being super, but it takes effort and intentionality. Right? And I know that like,
Katie and I swim in this water all day. Like we do this for families all day long to create that. to go home and do it is not super out of the norm. But I would encourage y'all to like sit down and have some of these conversations with yourself and then with your partner or your co-parent who's raising these kids because it's important of like, are the things, how do we want to help our kids communicate these emotions? How do we want to help our kids tolerate these emotions? Cause it's going to be, it's going to happen.
off of them and say this is this is what happened in my house this is how I handled it and to be open to them having ideas and feedback I recently had a situation and I was like and this is what I said and I told my kids none of your business and my friend my real good friend
like, ooh, do you think perhaps that was a little rigid? And I was like, ⁓ maybe. And I revisited it with my kids and was like, I just wasn't ready to share with you yet. So ⁓ that was really helpful. Okay, so if we talk about helping our kids learn to express other emotions besides anger,
do you think that we should cover? think probably sadness. Fear. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to start that over again. Okay. So I think if we're talking about helping our kids learn how to express feelings besides anger, one of the ones that adults, some of the ones that adults struggle with,
express well our fear ⁓ and sadness really right so if we think about adults being able to express emotions easily it tends to be more positive ones. So ⁓ if we think about helping kids get to a place where they can easily or maybe not easily but appropriately
express nervousness, fear, and sadness. How do we want to equip our kids for that? Yeah, I think when we talk about all feelings, ⁓ they come in waves, right? Even if we think about the awesome feelings, the ones that we really enjoy, there's still waves, right? Like I...
love to be excited. Like I'm the, I'm looking for my, next excitement thing, but I'm never going to live all in excitement. Like it's going to come in a wave itself. Right. And so even having that framework can be really helpful of like, of, of course you are sad. Of course this is scary. and it's in, in it will pass and that's okay. and so one,
as parents having that framework to be able to hold that for our kids. And then to encouraging those conversations. ⁓ A lot of families, we just don't say these words in our culture. We don't talk about when we're sad. We don't talk about when we're scared. We don't talk about these things. And so having the ability to say that in your family, right? And so modeling that of like, it's a big day at work. I got a big presentation and you're...
doing your scared thing, right? Walking around the kitchen, doing, picking up all the things or whatever your nervous thing. But even once you're recognizing that speaking into life around your kids, right? man, I am so nervous. I had a big old presentation, right? That he starts opening the conversation, right? And so then it starts normalizing these things. So then when you're seeing your kid do their nervous thing, their scared thing, you're saying, ⁓ you're so nervous.
The next step of that is...
which is so hard for babies.
Yeah. Right. And not telling them like, don't be nervous. It's going to be fine. You've practiced so hard or prepared so well. Right. So ⁓ or don't be scared or ⁓ don't be sad. There's a thing I think. I just listened to an amazing podcast by with Mel Robbins and I sent it to Megan. ⁓
And they were talking about the struggle that men have. And there's a thing that happens, right, where we accidentally really impede the emotional development of boys ⁓ by telling them, don't cry, don't be scared, don't be nervous, don't be sad. And we tell them, like, be strong, be brave. ⁓ And so it ⁓ really stunts their emotional growth.
So, aside from that piece just with boys, I think the thing that feels really important is just allowing them to feel the feeling and just be with them in it. Right? you know, if you have kids that, that look a little off that day, right? So just ask the question, how are you feeling? Or you seem sad or you seem nervous. you want to
Tell me what's going on, right? If they're older, if they're littler, we offer snugs, snugs, hugs, snuggles. And just be with them, sit with them.
Yeah, I think being present is huge. And so part of the thing for all of us is that it's really hard for us to sit with our kiddos in emotions that are hard for us to feel. Right? And I think that is so true. And that is okay as a parent, but just recognizing that. know that ⁓ whatever you weren't given or weren't allowed,
in your own childhood is gonna be really hard for you then to unrecognize yourself and then allowing your kids. And that isn't in any way, shape or form like a knock on our childhood, right? But it's a recognizing of like, okay, this was really hard for my parents for whatever reason. So I didn't get it taught that. what are the things, how do I wanna be intentional about sitting in with my kids? And that's okay, giving ourselves that space and helping our kids in that.
parenting is so hard because we're always growing too. Right? Kids are a perfect mirror to point out like a lot of our own imperfections and our own shortcomings. And I think as parents, that doesn't mean that we like race to fix all the things, right? but it's also like, just like we're saying, it's a race to sit with the things, just like we want to sit with our kids.
And it's kind of off that podcast from Mel Brooks. I kind of stole one of things he said because I just loved it. Yeah. Jason. ⁓