But The Years Are Short

Speaker 1 (00:02)
This is But the Years Are Short, the podcast where mamas who are therapists share real advice for real families. I'm Megan.

Speaker 2 (00:10)
And I'm Katie, and we want to be your front porch community where you can laugh and learn with us about the beautiful, messy, overwhelming, hilarious work of raising kids. But the years are short.

Speaker 1 (00:20)
because the days are long.

All right, Katie, this is podcast number one. Dun, dun, dun.

Speaker 2 (00:31)
That is podcast number one. I know. is exciting.

Speaker 1 (00:33)
We're so excited. All right, so we are really excited to be here and we wanted to really talk about why we're here and how we got here. So I think both of us had a unique path to not only become parents, but also becoming parenting experts. And so I kind of wanted just to share that with our audience about like why this is so important to both of us. So I'm just gonna start out like, Katie, how did you get here to become a parenting expert?

Speaker 2 (01:00)
Well, that's a really good question. I started out as a children's therapist and I think in working with the kiddos, ⁓ think frankly, I felt like there was only so much that I could do in the room. And I feel like you hear this a lot from ⁓

people who have shifted into parenting work, right? Like, so you do children's therapy with kids and ⁓ obviously, and so there's lots of work that you do. ⁓ So like working with kids is like, ⁓ there's lots of activities, there's lots of teaching. And I think there's a part of me, I think if I stay on topic, right, there's a part of me that

feels ⁓ I'm just built to be a little bit less playful than you are. So it's a little bit harder for me ⁓ to be in the moment with kids. I'm a little bit less patient. ⁓ And I'm kind of built to be a little bit more didactic. ⁓ I'm built to be like, OK, here are the things. Here are the things to know. ⁓

Let me. Structured. Yeah. Yes. Very structured. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:33)
Which helps when we talk about adults because their brains are fully developed. Kids don't like the therapy idea is that they need more or less structure to help their arms. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:44)
Right, all right. So anyway, I think for me, the piece that works well for my brain and the way that I function, it just works better for me to go at it from upstream. And so I've worked in private practice. I've worked in community, like mental health settings, where the money comes from Medicaid. And so I've worked in homes, which you know.

are ⁓ maybe three listeners at this point, right? Like, Megan and I have talked so much about the hilarity of going into ⁓ homes and not knowing at all what you're going to get and just how funny that is and how fun and how crazy and wild and

Speaker 1 (03:31)
And special, it's just unique and we so value it.

Speaker 2 (03:36)
Yes, it is like, I think it gives you this incredibly unique perspective, because you know, if you have somebody coming into your office, and you're like, well, here's what you should do, you should hang a chore chart on the wall. And then this is how you should respond. When your child says, No, I'm not going to do that. And then you go into their home. And you then find out

what it is like when the other four children are running around and then there are two dogs and then the grandparents also live there and then you know you have people coming in and out of the door and real life it's real life and so what does real life look like for these people and so I think it gives you a more patience and grace ⁓ for what parenting looks like in the real world ⁓ you know even even outside of your

your frame of perspective from your own home, right? So even if you are parenting your own children, you know, that gives you one lens. But I think when you are trying to help people parent from from their home, if you haven't been in a lot of different types of settings with people trying to parent from their house, ⁓ it's a little harder.

⁓ if you don't have that frame of perspective. anyway, if I get back on topic, how did I get here? So anyway, so I did that work and then I came back into private practice. and I just have always loved the parenting work because I have a lot of empathy around. Trying to love our babies. Well, enjoy them and take care of them and also be overwhelmed by them.

and frustrated with them and, but also, you know, trying to hold all of that at the same time. ⁓ is I, I just have a lot of space for that, I think. And so, you know, I think in this work that we do, you're trying to find a place for yourself, you know? ⁓ and this one just made.

lot of sense to me and what speaks to me. What about you?

Speaker 1 (06:04)
Yeah, okay, so ⁓ I've worked with kids since I was 12 and only liked kids. And so I like did babysitting and school camps and then graduated undergrad to teach. And so I always did that. And I'm gonna be really honest, like parents were really hard and I did not like them. And so when I went to grad school, ⁓ it was specifically to only work with kids. And so like even in our... ⁓

like master's program, have a part where you have to learn on adults. And I hated that part. I'm gonna be like super honest. It was so hard. It was challenging. I just really like kids. My family's always said, I'm like Peter Pan. So I am very playful and I love playing and I love the energy kids bring and the spontaneity and all of those things. And so like, I totally pigeonholed myself of like, I'm only gonna be work with kids. And I honestly don't even like parents. Like I'm just gonna be really real.

⁓ Well, through that I had a kid. ⁓ Mind you, I'd been around kids for a long time prior to that. had my degrees in child development and I'd halfway through my master's appointment, but it's all about kids. So I had so much, not just experience around kids, but I had a ton of knowledge about kids. And then I had this little person put in my lap and I thought, ⁓ my God, I have no idea what I'm doing.

Like legit and so I think that created so much empathy for me ⁓ and then that point I really was like nope I'm gonna figure out how to help parents because if I who have surrounded myself with kids and have been passionate about kids and am overwhelmed by this person When I have a decade of experience plus being around them like my gosh, how hard is this? And so for me that was really big shift and so I moved into

just getting a ton of education of how to support parents and about parenting. ⁓ And I still love kiddos. They're still my favorite, but helping to be a part of that journey for parents ⁓ is so valuable because at the end of the day, every kiddo just wants their parent, right? And I think because of lot of the experience we've had, and I believe this fullheartedly, every parent...

loves their kiddo. And it's like so freaking hard to be a parent. And so helping parents do that in a way that like supports each other and helps us grow is something that I just love to do. And honestly, the reason that we're doing this podcast is we want to like normalize parenting because I think it is like the hardest job you will ever have and the most rewarding in a lot of ways.

Speaker 2 (08:51)
Do you know, I, one of the things that I want to say out loud is the number of times that you and I are like, we have a whole freaking degree in this. And this is the hardest thing that I've ever done in my whole life. Like this is what we do for a job. And still I like y'all I go into Megan's office and sit on the couch and cry some days because parenting is so hard and so confusing and so overwhelming. It is

It is like, I'm so glad you said it's the hardest thing I'll ever do.

Speaker 1 (09:23)
Yes. And I think we totally, and it's hilarious. And so I think the pieces of how do we find the funny and the joy, like you were talking about earlier, how do we hold all the things? at the same time. It's super helpful and important. And I think the more that I do this, the more I realize I need another mama to cry to, right? And I need another place to hear, oh my God.

Yeah, okay, my teenager's not the only one, right? Or my baby's not the only one because it's just, it can feel so lonely some days. Yes.

Speaker 2 (10:00)
when you're a

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And you think of those like friends. ⁓ And I feel just like so thankful and grateful at different seasons of my life where like, you know, I had my first baby and it went one way. Right. And then so you're like, OK, I got it. And then you have a second baby and you're like, what is happening here? And like totally disoriented.

And so I remember calling like a really good friend of mine and just being like just sobbing. And she was like, yeah, yeah, it's okay. It's okay. And it's gonna be awful. If you have a few more weeks, and then I'll probably get better and it will be okay. Your first baby was real easy. And this one's harder and it's gonna be okay. I was like, okay.

Speaker 1 (10:50)
Yeah, and have those other people is like so helpful and important. And I would say like for me, I was the first of my friends to have babies. And that was like so terrifying and lonely. And my girlfriends were amazing. Like I'd call them and cry. But then all they could do was like, I'm so sorry. Like do you want me to get some something? And they would. Like they'd send me Sonic or they'd like, which is amazing and so helpful. But I think it was having, so then I like made sure I found a group of other mamas because I couldn't.

I didn't know, right? And like we said, the books only tell you so much. ⁓ So much. And there's just so many things that are unique to each of your babies, because everyone's different, and each time you as a mama show up. And so I love ⁓ one of the things that I like tell parents all the time, because this is super typical of like every...

Speaker 2 (11:37)
Yeah. Right.

Speaker 1 (11:46)
your kiddos are born into a different family. Every kiddo is a different family because your family's recreated at that moment, right? And so we show up differently because we're growing and we should, right? But it still is different and confusing. And then how do we help each other through that? And what does that support look like?

Speaker 2 (12:05)
Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. One of the things we were going to talk about today is what we believe about parenting and why we believe it matters. What do we believe about parenting? There are 1 million things that we believe about parenting, which we're going to get into over the next several months. I think one of the things that we've been talking about, and ⁓ I actually really love this book that somebody shared with me recently. So it's called Hunt, Gather, Parent. ⁓

And I really highly recommend it. And I want to give a caveat, right? Like, so the premise of it is that kind of in Western cultures. ⁓ So, you know, primarily the United States, Canada, ⁓ like Western Europe, we have developed this system of living in nuclear homes, ⁓ where it's like a, you know, either

So it's two, one or two parents and you know, the children. ⁓ And this, really has kind of developed just over the last couple hundred years. ⁓ And the idea being that before this, ⁓ we lived in much smaller communities and people really kind of just moved about the community. And you know, if you think of like small villages, right? So.

Speaker 1 (13:25)
as the king of Beauty and the Beast who watched it this morning or no this weekend and like the little kid just running from station to station. like that's the idea.

Speaker 2 (13:32)
Yes,

exactly. It's so funny because it's changed like everything I watch now. I'm like, that's what I OK, so people kind of moving about the community, right? Exactly like that. Right. So like there's the baker and there's the guy who sells the meat. And then there's the the like the metal person. I don't know. He's got like a black. Yeah, that's it. Yes. And then the grocer. Right. And so.

⁓ But the kids like move about the community much more independently. And then like the adults are kind of in and out of each other's homes. so ⁓ kids get parented really functionally by more than just their parent. ⁓ And then there's it's so much more multigenerational because people are caring for each other for a really long time, but within each other's homes. ⁓ And so sort of what I

Okay, so the argument of the book is that ⁓ it has become much more challenging to parent within the culture that we have built for ourselves because we have become sort of hyper independent and private. Right. And so before this movement of the last few hundred years, ⁓ the burden of parenting or the task of parenting was much more spread out. A lot of community.

Speaker 1 (14:53)
community.

Speaker 2 (14:56)
And I sort of at my core have this like yearning for community. It's something that has been present in me for, I think, probably my whole life. I mean, I was looking for jobs in a church to be a small group pastor 15 years ago. ⁓ I never got that job. Probably was a gift from the Lord. I would not have been good at that. But anyway, ⁓

And so I think at my core, what I believe about parenting is that it should be ⁓ sustained by community, right? And, you know, I still don't know exactly how to do that, frankly. So I'm kind of always looking for like, how do we, how do we do that? Like, how do we love our kids beautifully? How do we do that with great boundaries? How do we hold them up?

How do we support them? How do we teach them really well? ⁓ And how do we infuse more people to love them well? So.

Speaker 1 (16:06)
Yeah,

and give people the opportunity to love them well. So I think I completely agree with you in the idea of like we have shifted from being a very private and like it is the two heads of the household job to care and grow and do all the things for your kiddos. ⁓ And so I think that

Speaker 2 (16:10)
Ooh, say more about that.

Speaker 1 (16:28)
that limits our kids from the ability to be loved well. so like, and by different people, and so like I'll speak for my family, we moved, we have family like in our area, we moved 45 minutes away and lived there for four years. And it was fine, it worked well. But the thing that we missed and we realized we missed is that we have family really close. Like we have grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins, older cousins close to us.

and moving even 45 minutes and we live in DFW so traffic is a challenge. ⁓ It made it so that our kids didn't have the opportunity to pop over or run to or just even go to the grocery store with a grandparent that they had when we lived closer. So like we made a very conscious choice to move a mile from my in-laws and a mile from my brother-in-law and his family. And that has like changed our world and so like

Speaker 2 (17:03)
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (17:28)
by doing that, we have given our kids the opportunity to be loved differently, right? And so what that means for us is, like if aunt calls the kid and is like, hey, do you wanna go get ice cream? I have to be able to say yes, like go. And so giving other people the opportunity to love my kids and allowing that I think is a thing that's honestly can be really hard in some ways for our culture because we are often taught like, nope, it's just these four

typically, right, 2.5 kids, four people that get to hold the burden. It's just these four people that get to teach the lessons. Well, I'm gonna tell you in the last two years of living close, and I got teenagers, ⁓ I've really appreciated some of those lessons coming from someone that is not me, right? And so like when, or dad, when we have hit some hard walls and mom and dad have said all the words we can say, calling grandma or grandpa, who my kids really trust, or aunt or uncle, or cousin, like we had a cousin, one of my cousins.

my niece came over one time and talked to my daughter, right? Because we had been hitting the wall and she's older and she's already experienced some of those things. And so like letting them pour wisdom in it and being okay with that, right? Being okay with like, I'm not gonna be the one that says the things can be hard, I think sometimes.

Speaker 2 (18:44)
Yeah. And trusting, trusting other people to speak into our kids lives well. Right? Yeah. It's scary. ⁓ but I think it can be so, so worth it. for the kids, think one of the things that, you and I had a, ⁓ a shared mentor at one point. And one of the things that she said, and I really appreciated, she said it a couple of times.

was like the universe has to parent has to do some of the parenting for our kids. ⁓

Speaker 1 (19:22)
Okay. Well, I'm going to add to like also what I believe about parenting because I would completely echo everything that you said. ⁓ and I would also say like, I believe parents are doing the best they can with the information they have. And I say that to my kids often, like, and that doesn't mean that I get to be like, I pass for all the things. That's not what I'm saying. ⁓ but I do believe like,

Speaker 2 (19:42)
You get a pass.

Speaker 1 (19:49)
I mean, like I just shared the example of moving away often. My kids are still, I mean, cause they had to shift their whole world, right? So we shift their whole world to move 45 minutes away and then we shifted their whole world to move back. ⁓ and so we still are having growing pains two years later. And so I will say to them, like, I thought this was the best choice. Mom and dad thought this was the best choice for our family. And once we realized it wasn't, we made a different choice and we're still, and so it's not that I'm not, I'm still apologizing. I'm still having to deal with some of the fallout, but

I do believe that we make the best choices as parents. so having that for me helps me also be kind to other parents, right? So when I see XYZ happen, I'm not judging them or frustrated with them. I'm thinking, man, this is freaking hard and they're doing the best thing they can in this moment. How can I support them? Do they want my, if they want my support?

Speaker 2 (20:41)
Yeah, right. Absolutely. Yeah, because life is overwhelming and complicated. I just feel like it's so complicated.

I don't know. What was that one with the, it was like a step family and, ⁓

Yes, exactly. that's very funny. Boy Meets World is pretty good. Yeah, but no, I totally agree. It is especially for the parents, right? my goodness. Yeah, I just think the older I get, the more that I realized like things are things are much more complicated than you think. You know, I had a I will get into some of this in later episodes, but I just like I have these conversations with my kids where I like I've done something that I don't feel great about.

You know, and they're typically not giant things, but like I, they, um, catch me changing my mind about something or that I've promised to do. And then I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do that anymore. Um, and then, um, I have to like walk back something or I have to apologize about something and.

I just, you know, because our schedule is too full or, whatever, whatever the situation is. And I have to apologize. And I remember thinking so many times before I had kids, we should have an episode about that before I had kids. It's on our list. Okay, great. About how I was.

you know, just never going to do that to my kids. was never going to make a promise and then not go through that.

but you know, life.

I sit on the roof.

Yeah, but don't you think that, I mean, my guess would be, Megan, that he's doing that just to...

God stop.

No

So you told them to ask permission so that you could say no?

Okay, okay, so. ⁓

Yeah, a billion. And your brain isn't fully formed yet. And so that's why you're asking why.

Okay. So, this weekend, so I have a, I have a kiddo who, has some sensory things, right? So I get a text message middle of the day on Saturday for my 13 year old. It says, mom, can we go to Austin city limits?

Did she know? so I said, well, first I said out loud, are you f-ing kidding me? And then I managed myself.

It is because I think out of my mouth if she had said it to me I would have said no. Yeah yes with the like are you it really the face would have been are you kidding me and I would have said no. ⁓ But the texting is helpful because I like actually took a breath ⁓ and said who's playing that you'd like to see? Isn't that better?

And so, ⁓ she said, I don't know, it just sounds fun. ⁓ which is hilarious because things that this child doesn't like, are you ready? Number one, heat number two, lots of people. Number three, loud noises. four, crowded space. Yeah. Chaos. Uh-huh. Yeah. Any of those things. And she immediately asked me.

if she can be removed from that setting and go sit in the car. ⁓ And I almost always say, sure, because I also don't like those things and try to remove myself from those. And so ⁓ I was just thinking how I would have to pay lots of dollars for tickets to this for her to spend 15 minutes and then ask if she could leave. Yeah.

All the way to Austin.

That's actually a great idea.

Great. And then do know what I do? I could turn the heat way up in my house.

I could get a food truck to park out front. That's good. And then I could let her wear booty shorts. ⁓ and like just right in the house. no one would have to. Swimsuit top. Perfect.

Yeah, that's good. And just have people who smell like weed come. ⁓

I you're right. bet you're right. Well, with that, folks, we can wrap up episode one with a good just bang. That's good. I bet somebody knows exactly where that is.

are long, but the years are short. While we often talk about mental health, this should not be used as a substitute for mental health treatment. If you or your child are struggling, please reach out to a local provider.