Not sure how to help your little through those monstrously huge feelings? Katie and Meagan share great stories and better tips for helping tiny humans through these big moments.
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Speaker 2 (00:02)
This is But the Years Are Short, the podcast where mamas who are therapists share real advice for real families. I'm Megan.
Speaker 1 (00:10)
And I'm Katie, and we want to be your front porch community where you can laugh and learn with us about the beautiful, messy, overwhelming, hilarious work of raising kids. But the years are short. So one of the things I would love to hear from you, because this is an area that you're really educated about that I have less understanding about. like when.
Speaker 2 (00:20)
because the days are long.
Speaker 1 (00:35)
when we're talking about because we've talked a lot about teenagers, right? So let's talk about the little bitties, the little bitties and how they learn from the mamas because you have a good background in like infant development and mental health. So how does all that work?
Speaker 2 (00:51)
⁓ So we are all programmed to read other people's emotions and be able to connect with them. so like emotions are ⁓ indicators. Like they're indicators for all of us. They're indicators for us individually with ours, but they're also indicators that we read from other people, right? And so when our babies are born, the moment they're itty bitty, they actually think they're a part of us, right? So they don't understand like mama baby.
they're just complete extension of us. And so that's actually super powerful.
can feel like a huge weight sometimes as a mama or as a primary caregiver. But I think it's a beautiful weight that we have. So we have these things that are called mirror neurons. And what mirror neurons do, was, I'm a nerd, I really like the science. So was actually discovered in the 90s and experienced in Italy with monkeys. And so what they realized is what mirror neurons do is they help us learn, but they are the things that help a baby specifically as humans, they help us to understand
and read other people's and we actually have the same neurological response as that person that we were looking at, right? So if I'm, when I was holding my itty bitties, right, and I'm smiling and I'm laughing and I'm tickling their toes, I'm having chemical response in my brain and our babies are actually having the exact same because they are so attuned to us and connected with us that that's what's happening. So it's a really, really cool.
It's an amazing process that happens. But what it really does is it teaches our kids how to see emotions, how to read emotions, ⁓ and how to experience emotions. And so as they get older and older, right, they start to learn, like, ⁓ that's mama, I'm a baby. One of the reasons we have such big separation anxiety for all our kids, which is a normal happenstance, is because they realize that they're separated, right? They realize that mama exists when she is not in the room with me, or mama exists when she's not holding me.
And so that's a super typical thing, but that's also when our kiddos' emotions will start to shift and they actually need more help regulating those emotions, because they're having to learn to do it independently.
Speaker 1 (03:07)
So
what age do we shift from I'm a separate human than mama I Have different emotions than mama. I need more help Developing my or managing my emotions. Like when does all that happen?
Speaker 2 (03:24)
Yeah,
so that tip so we there's a reason we call it like terrible twos and in three majors like cuz that's when that all that's happening Right and so it's really they are learning and realizing like ⁓ wait There's I'm a different person like I can do something that makes me happy and that doesn't mama doesn't have to see or if this makes me angry and mama did it right and so they're able to start doing that and that's why we see these giant emotions from our kiddos is because ⁓
I tell parents all the time, like, there's a reason we use the word feelings. ⁓ Our little ones are literally feeling it all over their body. Like, there's not a separation genuinely between, the emotional world we're using for happy or sad and the experience they're having in their body when they're so little, right? And so, like,
I like my favorite age in the whole world is like three year old Jill and I love them because when I like hang out with them or when I work with them it's like you know exactly what they're experiencing in that moment right when they are happy it is written all over their bodies they're jumping yeah they're wiggling they're jumping they're all excited right I mean when they are mad man their whole bodies tell you and I love that but I also think we often need to remember that as grown-ups we get to an age where we get really good at shutting it down right so like I'm
don't have the moment for it, shut it down, right? Little ones can't do that. I that is super, obviously I love it, but like helping them to shape that is such a privilege we have as parents and caregivers.
Speaker 1 (04:56)
Yeah, that's true. That's true. We, one of the things we talk about when we work with kids is sometimes like with the littles, we give them like a
Maybe if they're like five, we give them a crayon, right? And we tell them like, okay, so pick a color for happy and then color. we get, we like outline their body and then we have them color. Like, where do you feel when you feel happy? Show me where you feel it. And we have them color it in and like anger. They almost always pick red. Right. And then they color their hands and feet and face.
almost always, right? Because the theory is there, right? Like when they're angry, they want to like swing at something or grab something or hit somebody, right? Bite somebody, kick somebody. I just love it because it's it's raw. You know, it's like, it's unfiltered. It's just real. It is real.
Speaker 2 (05:50)
Yeah, and so
helping parents shape that, right? That's the important thing. ⁓ And so emotions are just that, they're indicators, right? They're not like full truths and we're experiencing them. And so helping our kiddos move through that is super helpful and important and can be so overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (06:15)
like, okay,
so let's talk about how we do help them through it then, right? And at the different ages. So ⁓ if you so some things that make little is angry. Yeah, right. Like somebody took my block.
Speaker 2 (06:28)
Yeah, I don't get the purple plate when I want the purple plate for dinner. Right this very second.
Speaker 1 (06:32)
I want to have a cookie right now.
You gave me juice in the wrong sippy cup.
Speaker 2 (06:38)
Can't watch
my show for the billionth.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I have to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (06:49)
Yeah, ever. Ever. I have to brush my teeth. Shocker. I have to take a bath. All these.
Speaker 2 (06:52)
Yep.
are normal. I those are totally normal things to get mad at. I think, so then what do do with it? Right?
Every kid's different, right? I got three. They're all three of their mads looked very different. ⁓ my oldest, we used to call him a firecracker. Well, he still is, right? So he is like calm as cucumber. But then the moment he is mad, it, there's like literally no built. And all of a sudden we are when we were five screaming, rolling on the floor, like, and we literally have, cannot tell you why, right? For the most part, because he just, when he got mad, gets super mad. ⁓ and then I have my youngest.
is so calm and then when he gets mad all of a sudden he's crying. He cries. He cries. But you can like see the build very very distinctly. But I think it's like how do I... that space of like I as a parent
don't have to control it, I don't have to fix it. I just want to give my kid a tool in it. Right? let's be real, like, can't, if they want the purple plate, and the purple plate's in the dishwasher, I'm not washing the plate to get it to them.
Speaker 1 (08:09)
Yeah,
I'm not, yeah, I'm not taking it out.
Speaker 2 (08:10)
⁓
But I can help them through it, right? And sometimes helping them with the emotion, right? And so it's, so I guess an example, right? Yeah. And this one's very stupefying on mine. I don't know if you can tell. We had a lot of arguments about purple plates in my head. And so, ⁓ because I have one girl and two boys, so we had lots of blue plates and very few purple plates. So she wanted a...
Speaker 1 (08:28)
This is
⁓ I
Speaker 2 (08:38)
purple plate for dinner. Girlie. And so one of the things you can do is act, like we call it act, right? And so Gary Landroth, who is the father of play therapy, Katie and both.
very much respect him. came up with this thing. So it's act and it's A is acknowledge a feeling. C is communicate a limit and T is target an alternative. Right? So like my five year old's losing her mind because she has to have a blue plate instead of purple one. And so it's like, I know you're really disappointed. You don't get the plate you want. Right? So I'm acknowledging your failing. I'm communicating limit. Tonight we have blue plates, right? That can be my limit. It's as simple as like, this is the world we're in. Right? And then my targeting the alternative is going to be creating
a better option for her to express those emotions, right? So you can be sad and you can ask for me to hold your hand or you can ask for the fork you like, right? So I'm giving her options. We're not saying you can't be something. I don't know about y'all, but the moment that someone I really love, like if I come to Katie and I'm crying for a day and she's like, don't worry, it's fine, get over it, we got things. That does not make me feel better. I'm not getting over it. ⁓
And so we don't need to squash our kids' but we do need to give them tools through it.
Speaker 1 (09:54)
Yeah. Okay. So
let's run through that one more time. So it's, say act it's a C T a being acknowledged, the feeling C being communicate the limit T being target and alternative. Right. So let's walk through, let's say, you know, kiddo is mad because you have gotten in a way or accidentally knocked over the blocks that they were, they were playing with stacking up.
Okay, and so they pick up a block and throw it at you. So the response is something like, ooh, I see that you're really mad. So you're acknowledging the feeling. And then the communicate the limit is something like, I am not for hurting, or blocks are not for throwing, right? And the language sounds a little bit weird because it's we're trying to give like a limit of the universe, right? Like a rule of the universe.
Or you could say, ⁓ please don't throw a block at me. If it feels a little bit more normal, if it feels a little bit more comfortable for you to say something that sounds like you, that's fine. ooh, ⁓ you're really mad at me. ⁓ And then something like, please don't throw blocks. You could say, you can stomp your feet instead. Or let's rebuild the blocks together.
Right. But if it is, it's, it's best if it can be something that also allows them to get that. So we have done a lot of talking about ⁓ feelings and I think we wanted to dig a little bit deeper into the littles and how to help them manage their big feelings. And one of the places that we wanted to really kind of spend a little bit more time in is how important it is to help.
them and their bodies manage feelings because what they don't, you what we're not born with is this ability to, like when our nervous systems get kind of fired up with big feelings. And one of the things that I know, you know, really well is how it works so beautifully to bring them close, hold them, ⁓
and have our bodies help their bodies settle, which is why we kind of have this innate desire to hold them, pick them up, literally hold them close to our body when they are crying. Right, exactly. Like hurt, mad, any of those things. We have this like, I'm going to pick you up. I'm going to hold you. And ⁓ part of the reason that that is is because it works really well. Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:34)
or upset or any of the things, right?
Speaker 1 (12:50)
helps them, their bodies just settle down. And so it can really be helpful if you just kind of lean into that and keep doing that as they get a little bit older. That like 6, 7, 8 kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:04)
Yeah, and so I think for one of the things that we forget is or we may not even understand is like that our kiddos, like you said, Katie, aren't hardwired to regulate. Like that's a skill that we're learned. That's learned, right? And so they're hardwired to learn it, but they just don't come with the equipment, right? So it's like a starter set, right? Of building.
We built a robot in our house recently. So it comes with a starter set, right? And it comes with the things you need for step one through three. But then to make it the really cool things, you have to add on. And that's kind of what it is for our kiddos in regulating these emotions is they come with those tools for a starter set. And our job is to really help them build that. And so one of the things, the way that they learn it is through us, right? Is through when they're having a really hard moment. We pick them up and we hold them and we say.
Okay, we are taking deep breaths whether we recognize it or not as parents. Like we're doing our regulating things as we hold our babies. And so that's one of the best ways that they learn. That is through us and with us. And it is like we talked about a little bit earlier, like kiddos are having these feelings in their body and they are so big and it can feel so overwhelming. And so having that closeness of holding your kiddo and feeling that regulating and just feeling that comfort isn't
⁓ babying them and it isn't like hurting them, it's actually helping them and teaching them.
Speaker 1 (14:32)
Ooh, that's so good. think that's the thing that people ask us a lot is, am I reinforcing big behaviors or bad, quote unquote, bad behaviors by picking them up, holding them, or reinforcing crying if I pick them up and hold them?
Speaker 2 (14:49)
Yeah, and it's like always a balance, but for sure when your kiddos are like early elementary to below, you're not reinforcing it. What I say is like, we're never worried about the big feeling, right? We're like, how do we help the time of the big feeling, right? So that's the thing. It's like when your baby is like two or three and they're super mad at you because you won't let them build with the itty bitty Legos that...
Belong to cousin or big brother, right? Because they're going to choke. And they're so mad. Helping to hold that and regulate that. Yeah, it may take five to eight minutes to regulate, right? But then by the time that they're four, because they've been practicing, there's going to be a big no. It's going to be a little bit less. And then when they're five, a little bit less. And so that's the thing. It's not that we're withholding that from our kids. But we have to recognize it's a process. And it should become smaller and smaller. As they...
build skills as their toolkit gets stronger and bigger.
Speaker 1 (15:47)
Yeah, you know, that's so helpful because it's like once you have like, minor now 11 and 13. And the things that used to be like, Lord, this is gonna take us 10 minutes to get over this. No, now are just not a thing. And it's so I just feel like so thankful that, you know, we've made it through that piece that felt like in the midst of it, we were not going to survive.
Speaker 2 (16:14)
Yeah, and it does feel like that because they are so big. Yeah. And they're big because they just don't know what to do with them, right? And so we get to help keep those for kiddos. ⁓ it's so exhausting in it. One of the best ways that we talk about, Katie, is that we educate our families ⁓ on how do we help our kids understand feelings? What are the things you tell your families about how do we even help our kids understand these feelings?
Speaker 1 (16:40)
Ooh, so good. OK. So when they're really little, ⁓ one of the things that you can do is when you notice that they have a feeling, you can see it on their face really big because kids have no filter. And it is, first of all, hysterical. It's my thing, right? It is the most fun. I still have these Facebook pictures, or the time hop thing that comes up, where I have a picture of my daughter who's really mad at me because she told me 2 plus 2 equals 3.
Speaker 2 (16:56)
I think.
Speaker 1 (17:09)
told her that that was not true. she has this like her face is obviously very, it's like a blend between angry and sad. And it is so funny ⁓ now, right? And in the moment, I mean, it was funny in the moment. But anyway, so my point being, their faces, it is very clear what they are feeling. And so when they're little, you can just notice what they are feeling and say it out.
And it's super simple, right? So ⁓ one of the ways that we do this is just to say like, ooh, you're angry or, ⁓ so sad, so sad. Or you really wanted two plus two to be three. ⁓ Right. so ⁓ or, ⁓ frustrated. Yeah. It's just it's quick. It's just one.
Speaker 2 (18:00)
It's great.
Speaker 1 (18:03)
thing, right? I mean, it takes us knowing and being able to label the feeling. But we're talking about like, and somebody came up with this. It's not us. But I heard it in a podcast recently. You told me about this, right, when we think about in terms of crayons, right? So we're talking about like a whole, if grownups have a 100 box of crayons, and they are all colors, all these colors of crayons, right? Kids have like five.
Speaker 2 (18:29)
Yep. Think inside out. ⁓ It's like think inside out. Let's just try to label inside out for our kids.
Speaker 1 (18:31)
Yeah, ooh, that's so.
That's so
good. Right. So if we're talking about like happy, sad, angry. Yep. Excited. Right. So we're not talking about a lot. ⁓ And so just pick, you know, your big five and just notice. And so then when they start to have a feeling, they can identify it with a word. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:41)
Scared.
The body sensation doesn't feel as overwhelming because we know what it is.
Speaker 1 (18:59)
Right. And then they can say it and they can label it. And then as they get older, they get a little bit more complex, right? Frustrated, confused.
Speaker 2 (19:09)
and set out. I think scared or fear, you're really afraid. Disgust, I just feel like you don't like it, right? So we don't like it, or we're doing those kind of things. And so I think the big ones that we really are running into are going to be sad, afraid, mad, are the ones that we have the biggest response to, right? Or can feel the most overwhelming from here.
Speaker 1 (19:32)
Yeah, yeah, so those are really good ones. And then as they get a little bit older, right? So we talked about holding them, all those things that are co-regulating. So that's what we call that. And then as they get bigger, it's like, you're so angry. Stomp your feet. Right? Yeah, exactly. So you can give them things to do that are helpful. Or ⁓ you're feeling nervous. Let's take a deep breath. And so I started doing that when my kids were really little. And it took one of them.
Speaker 2 (19:47)
Give them that tool. Yeah. To do with it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02)
oldest one really appreciated that and did it. ⁓ And of course she wasn't like, mommy, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (20:07)
We need to be a great model,
Speaker 1 (20:10)
But she really did. She started doing it at a pretty young age. And then my youngest one didn't really ⁓ absorb that until pretty recently. And she's 11. And so now she does deep breaths when she's feeling nervous. And I can see her doing it on her own. But she wouldn't even do it with me until about a year ago. And I would prompt her. And she'd be like, no, I'm not doing it. Yeah, right. And that's fine.
Speaker 2 (20:32)
I'm not doing it.
And I would say, when I had a couple that were like, nope, not doing it mom. And so I would just do it for them, right? Yes. their little, right? Or like, so I'd be like, OK, we're going to, you're really overwhelmed. We're going to take a deep breath. We got to get through this math homework, right? Yes. Like first graders sitting at the table. And he'd be like, no. I'm like, OK, well, I'm going to take a deep breath. And I'd either put my hand on, depending his mood, like his chair or his leg. Yeah. And I would just take a deep breath.
I would say I'm breathing in like a sports broadcaster narrating my whole thing. I'm breathing in one, two, three, four. Breathing out. Lion's breath. One, two, three, four. Okay. I'm gonna do it one more time, right? And by my second breath or third breath, he would be breathing. No, obviously not. He never wanted me to know. But I think we can do it with them. without like being like, you're gonna take the deep breath.
Speaker 1 (21:23)
Right, very secretly. Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:31)
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:32)
Why are you doing it with me? You're so stubborn. Yeah, which is we're thinking. Yeah, which we want to do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:38)
Yeah, so I think we can do it with them to help them for sure and that modeling that co-regulating is so powerful. We do it as adults even today. Like we just all do it. I think if we can be intentional and recognize it for our kids, it can be so beneficial.
Speaker 1 (21:53)
Yes, my gosh, that's so funny. Right in the middle of it is really frustrating when your kid's like, I'm not doing that. Or ⁓ they're really overwhelmed, or really sad, or whatever. And it's hard for them to slow it down. OK, so in the midst of all of this, we ⁓ asked some friends if they had questions about helping their littles manage their feelings in the moment.
Speaker 2 (22:07)
slowing it down, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:21)
Yes. Okay, so you had a good friend. Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:24)
Yeah,
she gave me a couple questions. So I'm just going to bounce them off and see what you Let's do it. OK, so it says, it's, how do we help our kids have a voice and move through our day? So the idea here is like going to be probably like our three to five, six year old, seven year olds, right? So they're learning how to speak. They're learning how to articulate what they want into that balance. What do you say to that, Katie? How do we help them?
Speaker 1 (22:48)
When this comes up, kids really want to have a voice, it sounds like independence, this desire for independence. So the things that we hear a lot are like, want to help. I want to do it. ⁓ I don't want to go to the bathroom. I'm not hungry. Yes. That's not fair. That's not fair.
Speaker 2 (23:01)
Hope you.
All the time, all the things. ⁓
Speaker 1 (23:13)
OK,
so managing these and moving through the day. OK, so my favorite go-to. So let's go with, I don't want to do it. So one of the things I learned to do pretty early on is to respond with, ugh, I don't want to do that either. But we've got to do it. And then come up with a way to do it that doesn't suck.
Yeah. Right. And so when they're really, really little, it's very helpful to do things together. Kids like to do things together. Yeah. And that's like kind of a community building. It's a bonding thing. ⁓ And it's good for kids to do things together. Yes. And so if it's like ⁓ picking up your room, making your bed, putting the dishes in the dishwasher, ⁓ there's a thing that we do in Western culture where it's like,
OK, you put your dishes in the dishwasher. I'm going to go pick up the living room. ⁓ And it's not super good for us to all be doing separate things all the time. It's much better for kids to learn from us how to do things well. With us. With us. Exactly. And so if we can do the things together, so it's like, OK, ⁓ we need to put the dishes in the dishwasher, then we are doing them together.
Right? Like, we need to pick up the kitchen. We are doing it together. Yes. Yeah. Doing it jointly is really, really helpful. Does it take longer? 100%. Yeah. But it is really helpful. And you have way fewer power struggles. Way fewer. So it does mean building in more time in your day to get through the things, like tying our shoes. Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:44)
in that joint piece.
Speaker 1 (25:03)
picking up the room before bed. And I will tell you, I was not beautiful at this. Or I didn't do a great job of this all the time because I'm a little bit obsessive. Shocking. ⁓ I like things done a certain way. And I want to get things done quickly. so I sort of, their dad and I had this kind of divide and conquer situation where it was like, OK, you cover this, I'll cover this, and then we'll be in the bed. And then we can relax. Yeah.
Right, and so if I had to go back and redo things, ⁓ this is probably something that I would shift a little bit. Right, like I think I would do more with my girls ⁓ of like picking up together. We're brushing our teeth together. We're brushing our hair together. Because I think it it decreases power struggle. It increases them learning from watching.
Speaker 2 (25:54)
which is helpful, right? And good. I think the other thing I think about is ⁓ the idea of voice and vote. And so I know this sounds super silly, but I think ⁓ we tell parents all the time, like, yeah, your kids get a voice, right? They get to tell you how they feel. That doesn't mean they get a vote in the situation, right? So it doesn't mean they get to change things. So if your family routine is we do our homework or we sit at the table and do a... ⁓
Speaker 1 (26:05)
I love it.
Speaker 2 (26:23)
learning activity together. And they're like, I don't like it. I don't want it. Well, guess what? They don't get to vote on that. Their brains aren't fully developed. They don't get a full understanding of the thing. So I think sometimes as parents, really want to respect, we have this idea of like, we want to respect our kids and autonomy. We want to respect their opinions and we want to give them voice for feelings. And I think that is great. And we should want that. That doesn't mean that it changes their world.
That doesn't mean that it stops the things or that we have to shift all the things for it. We still have to get our work done. We still have to clean our bedrooms. We still have to brush our teeth. And they can't understand the big picture of why. And so think recognizing for us as parents is like, know, ⁓ like Katie said, yeah, this stinks. You're really frustrated about this. And you don't understand why we have to do it. So we're going to do it. And having that process of like, we're going to...
figure out how to do it in a way that does feel connecting and it is with can be really helpful. But I would say like we got to do the things y'all and that's totally fine. What do you
Speaker 1 (27:28)
think
about giving choice around the order of things? if it's typically like we get home, and in your mind, what makes the most sense is we get home, we unpack backpacks, we do homework, we get ready for dinner, we do bath time, we do, you know what I mean? You've got this order of operations that makes the most sense. And to them, it sounds like tyranny.
Speaker 2 (27:55)
Yeah, so
I totally believe in choices and I think that there's always choices. There's like the big choices and the small choices, right? So like if the idea to me like my kids hated bath time, like they hated getting to bath time. They were great once we got it, but getting to bath time was a challenge, right? So then it was like, okay, it's bath time. You can choose to march like a soldier in there or you can choose to grab your favorite toy for the bathtub, right? And so like I'm giving them some autonomy and some power in it.
But ultimately, they're doing bath time. Ultimately, we're taking our shoes off. And so I think we can think of the little bitty choices if your routine has to go x, y, There are some times our routine has to go this way for certain reasons. And that's totally fine. So what are the little choices in that? If you do have flexibility in your routine, I had three kids under four at one point in my life. So I couldn't give my three-year-old a choice of, hey,
do you want to do this first or that first? Like that literally was not going to happen, right? Cause I had itty bitties in the thing. And so I could give him choices of like, do you want to have your car's cup or your, the Buzz Lightyear cup at this moment, right? But like we had to sit at the table to do snack. Like my brain wasn't going to think, so I couldn't, but like if you can give her choices of like, do you want to brush your teeth first or take a bath first? Like those are great. But
remembering like there's always a choice within that for our kids empowers them and then like Like he said the whole a lot of the reason for this like I don't want to I'm not going to hear me say is because they don't have a lot of autonomy and they Understand that they want it. They want that independence and autonomy
Speaker 1 (29:37)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. If we think about, this actually matter? I think that's another thing that is really helpful to keep in mind. And this is going to bleed into our next question here in a second. But I think it's also helpful if you really try to keep in mind, does this actually matter? I mean, there's a way that I want things to go in my brain because I think this is optimal. This is best. This is the way this should go. And then my kids are like, hey, ⁓
Can I go to the park? And I'm like, no. And then I think, OK, well, wait a minute. There was a way I wanted tonight to go. And again, so I have older kids. And obviously, if a three-year-old says, can I go to the park? And you just don't have it in you, then say no, because that requires you to go. And if you just cannot get there today, then don't go. But if your kid wants to have like,
mashed potatoes with syrup on it, and it doesn't actually matter, then do it. Like, who cares? If they had, I don't know, broccoli for lunch, then they got all those vitamins, then who cares? And I'm hitting on a thing that I think is a little bit controversial, because food is.
really specific, and people have lots of big feelings about food. And so if food is not the thing that you feel like you can be free about, that's fine. ⁓ Maybe for you, it's clothing, and your kids want to put on a ridiculous outfit. Great. Who cares? They want to wear a fire helmet out to the grocery store? Do it. Yeah. Please.
Speaker 2 (31:22)
I don't
Speaker 1 (31:24)
Yes, 100%.
Yeah. Do it. I think one of my favorite stories is my kid's dad took them to the grocery store and forgot shoes one day. And so I got a picture of my kid walking around the grocery store with no shoes on. And I just sort of love that. Part of me was like, what have you done? Which is funny. But then also, life is just life.
Yes. And we just have to roll with it sometimes. And so if it doesn't matter, we have to let it go. Like we have to let our kids be a little bit wild, a little bit silly, a little bit ridiculous because they have so little say in their life. They don't get to pick where they are, when, who they're with. Might as well let them pick like ridiculous things to put on their body.
Speaker 2 (32:13)
His figure out the world through play, like that's what we say all the time. And so I think that is also the beauty of this, right? Of giving them this random choices, random autonomy, is that you're gonna see their little personalities, you're gonna see their play, you're gonna see that piece come out. And so I think that is also.
very cool as a parent because one of the coolest things about being a parent is getting to see these little people's personalities. You get to see these guys grow up to be who they're going to be. And so these are fun little glimpses when we can give them that space of who are you? Who are you going to be? Especially at that three to seven age, they're just so fun. So fun.
Speaker 1 (32:50)
Gosh, they're so funny. OK,
so another question that we had was, how do we help our kids go through big emotions and protect the rest of the house? OK, so that feels ⁓ weighty. if we think about like, so kids sometimes are on this like three, four, sometimes five range, right? They're testing out big, big behaviors. Yes. And the big, big behaviors sometimes look like, I mean,
they're trying things like throwing blocks or other things around them that are become projectile.
Speaker 2 (33:27)
Yeah, and like jumping off really high things. They're just trying. It's true. They're figuring out. They're like the best little scientists, right? It's all like trial and error and so they're figuring it out. And I think the thing that can feel overwhelming as parents is when they start trying these things with the big emotion around other kiddos.
Speaker 1 (33:47)
Yep. Yeah, exactly. So ⁓ when they start pushing other kids, right? So this is a thing that we kind of warn parents about. Like, it's not a if this happens. It's a when it happens. Yep. Right. So they're going to preschool for the first time or yes. Yes. So it's not like if your kid pushes somebody or if your kid bites somebody or ⁓ it's a when your kid pushes somebody. ⁓ My.
Speaker 2 (34:02)
Monday out or play date.
Speaker 1 (34:16)
One of my mom's favorite stories about my brother is he didn't like what somebody at daycare was doing. So he pushed them into a chair and sat on them. And my brother is the sweetest, most generous, gentle humans.
Speaker 2 (34:32)
Yeah, so I can tell I have my youngest is like just the most gentle of all my children like he is Yeah I got a call and he was like three from the preschool or no mess, man Yeah, he was three and they said that he pushed his friend into the bookshelf and she hit her head and It was just like okay here we are bit like never before I never done anything. Yeah
Speaker 1 (34:40)
Cheers.
Speaker 2 (34:58)
Anywhere aggressive. exactly. And so it's just, and we tell that story to him as a laughter because still to this day, he is not the aggressive kiddo. And so it was just hilarious that like the one time I got called from the school, was because he pushed a kid. But it's, right, right? It's like when they do that and it's not like they're bad spirited or they're being mean. It's they're, like I said, they have a really small robot toolkit. Like they're building it. And so like part of how do we help our kids in that?
Speaker 1 (35:25)
Yeah, how do we figure it out? How do they figure it out? All right, so how do we help them, right? So ⁓ we have to talk about it. We have to talk about it with them. And when they're little, we need very few words. So I think the rule of thumb, when they're little and it's almost impossible and
Speaker 2 (35:36)
very few words.
Speaker 1 (35:45)
As usual, we're borrowing from Gary Landriff. the rule of thumb, if you will, is if you can't say it in 10 words or less, don't say it. We try to shoot for ⁓ rules of the universe with our kids. So it's not, don't push Sophia. It's people are not for hurting.
Speaker 2 (36:09)
Because you can apply that over and over again, and you will say that same verb over and over again.
Speaker 1 (36:15)
Yes, and it will apply to the rest of their lives. People are not for hurting. It works when they bite somebody. It works when they push somebody. It works when they want to poke somebody in the eyeballs. ⁓ Megan says it to me sometimes.
Speaker 2 (36:30)
And it translates, right? It translates from physical to our verbal, right? They're going to hear it in lots and lots of ways. And I love it. I think the other piece for our littles is we have to like set up their world too. So I know that one of the things that I was taught when I was in college, like in child development is like, if they are under five, they should be within arm's reach.
And so, this is like preschool, right? So if I'm teaching preschool, like the kiddos should be in arms reach. And the reason for that is, is because Suzy is going to try to Johnny, right? And so, but if I'm in arms reach, I may not be able to stop the actual biting, but I can separate them quickly, right? And so I think recognizing we gotta be close to our littles. They need that co-regulation. They need us to be close. ⁓ And so I would like,
Speaker 1 (37:00)
interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:25)
I'm not gonna lie, I was because of this. I was the mom that when we had play dates, if the kids were in the living room, I sat in the living room and I talked, right? But I sat near my kid because he couldn't do, they can't do it all by themselves. And so I think there's that balance of we have to be close specifically for this three, four, five year old range because they do need us to intervene. And so being close, and being close to just grab them,
⁓ And then like separate them to help them regulate and help them and then return so like I can think of a time ⁓ Where in one of my kiddos we were at a playdate and he was like three or four and there was a kiddo who was probably about the same age as him and my kid is like a giant he always has been He's a giant and so he like towered over the kid, right and ⁓ the kid pushed him and he's a giant so he didn't move at all and so then my kid just
Speaker 1 (38:12)
He is a giant.
Speaker 2 (38:22)
like literally body slammed him y'all into the playground. And so then I like told you, I'm like arms reach. So I grab him and we separate, right? And we walk away and we say, I know you're so sad. Friends are not for hurting. And so we take a minute to calm down and then we return and we say, what do we say to our friends? And so then we, it's like help them replay and reengage part of that. And so I think that there is that balance of like, we gotta be near them to help them in some ways.
Speaker 1 (38:51)
Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (38:52)
In that helicopter, like I'm not like orchestrating his play. I'm not orchestrating that piece of it, but I'm just nearing exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:58)
Monitoring.
Yeah, monitoring. OK, so at what point did you feel more free to kind of back out and just watchfully observe from a farther distance?
Speaker 2 (39:08)
So
kindergarten, and I think that's what I was like typically, I think that's from my training in that. So when my kids were in kindergarten, yeah, no, I was at the bench. sat, I still, if we go to the park, I'm sitting on the bench and they're playing and I'm fine with that. Because they can monitor themselves better. There's a huge growth between like four and six in their brains, right? And so then that growth also increases like.
ability to regulate, ability to read social cues, ability to articulate. And so those are all huge important things when we talk about how do we help our kids hold these emotions and how do we help them engage in that, right? So like, by the time my kids were in kindergarten, I'm happy to go sit on the bench and they can play and I can talk to my friends. ⁓
Speaker 1 (39:54)
Mm-hmm. that's so good. That's so, good. I love that. And I think the thing that you hear when Megan's talking about this is there's a difference between no pushing and physically intervening and immediately removing from the situation, which at that age is much more appropriate because there is a quick ⁓ stop you're pulling out of that situation because it is not appropriate to physically harm. Yeah.
So that gets into something else that I wanted to talk about, which is where is the line between, and maybe it's an age difference, right? So where is the line between a verbal instruction, correction, warning maybe, and a, ⁓ we're all done here, right? ⁓ You may not behave that way, and we're removing from the situation.
Speaker 2 (40:32)
I'm part of it for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:50)
And maybe it's different per family. mean, maybe at some point, we can talk about that. But I think maybe this is for, maybe there is a line for everyone where ⁓ it becomes about, because I think for me, in teaching parenting skills, the line for me is about physical harm. Always. Like for people or for animals, critters. Yeah. Where it is like,
People are not for hurting. Animals are not for hurting. And we're all done here. We're all done. And so we can come back into the setting, but we're going to remove for now. And when I say we're going to remove, I'm physically moving my hands as if I'm picking up a child and moving them. so age-wise, you can't always do that. you can, as they're older, physically shepherd them out of a situation and say, Bubba, we're not.
And I say that as if I'm talking to a boy. I talk to my girls that way sometimes, right? Like, sweet girl, no, no, no, no. We're not doing that. So I don't know. What are your thoughts about that?
Speaker 2 (41:57)
No, I think that is ⁓ very true. think one, knowing your kiddo, your family, your tolerance is going to be important. ⁓ And so I do agree with the physical harm piece for sure. In my house, the kids were always bigger, right? So we were throwing things, we were lying on the floor crying. And so like when...
that's happening, I may not be able to pick up. So, like I said, I giant kids, right? So like when my oldest was four, like I did not pick him up when he was like having a big old moment. I did throw as many toys away from him as I could and put brother and sister in another space, right? And so like if he's having a tantrum in the middle of the living room, right? And throwing the toys, well, I'm grabbing brother and sister and I'm saying, go on the other side of the couch or go to your room, right? And like, I'm not...
going to pick him up at that point, but I am going to move all the toys and I'm going to say, okay, we got to calm down when you're calm. Let's take our deep breath. put our song on those things to help calm them. Yeah. So yes, I think that we have to know that line and we have to be really responsive to that. And the thing is, is like, our kids learn that line. Like they start to learn when they start rubbing up, right? They know, they go, no, I'm going to lose the thing. Right? I have a video of
my oldest, ⁓ he was probably five at this point, right? And he, we were literally like, it was a happens dance video. I did not expect this, but like we're playing in the play room. and we're watching his sister. So his sister's doing a dance and he, the baby kind of got in his stuff and I see him look at the baby and he looks at me and then he looks at the baby. goes, this is my Batman and I will not yell.
because he knew he would lose his Batman, right? Because he knew that if he like yelled at the baby or pushed the baby, he'd lose his Batman, right? But that he learned that line because a lot of times I was like, ⁓ we do not talk to people like that. We do not yell at the baby. And so then losing it. And so I think like our kids will start to learn that if we can be super consistent in that.
Speaker 1 (43:59)
Yep.
Absolutely. I think ⁓ that's a language that I used a lot when ⁓ my girls were little and that I teach parents to use a lot. It's like, we do not talk to people that way. People are not for speaking to that way. And it's something that I really don't tolerate from other adults around me, ⁓ which I think is really important for our kids to see also. Yes. Is that we don't tolerate other people.
speaking to us that way.
Speaker 2 (44:33)
And we don't speak to people that way. Right. And
that's not to say we never make a mistake. I'm totally honest. I'm a yeller when I get so like, I've yelled at my kids. But then it goes back to that repair piece of, hey, mommy is so sorry people aren't talking that way. And I say that to them. And I say, I'm so sorry. Without saying, you were the little stink that made me so mad. Yes. I'm not saying that. Yes. If you would have just done.
Speaker 1 (44:59)
Yes. Okay. So there's ⁓ a way that we decided that we're going to end our podcast and it is with silly stories. So Megan has a great story from when her oldest was a little.
Speaker 2 (45:11)
Okay, yeah, so and also kind of fits in like rolling with it. So I was like eight months pregnant with my second and my oldest was about two and we lived in an apartment, which you know is fun with a two year old and he wanted to do bubbles and I was too exhausted to do bubbles. And so I was like so proud of myself. I got, we had a swimming little swimming pool and I put it in on the patio and I poured water in it and I literally like turned in, had it in swimsuit, everything. And I turned in the house to go grab a towel, which is probably like
five feet from the window, I mean the door, right? And then I'd come back out and unbeknownst to me, the bubble box, like huge jar had been there and he had poured it all into the water. Whole thing and had jumped in the pool before. So he's like sitting in it, like splashing his little eyes, just so excited and his smile, giant. So proud of himself and just so excited that he's like playing in the bubble. And I was like so pregnant and just so annoyed because
Speaker 1 (45:51)
Yeah
Speaker 2 (46:09)
I knew what that meant to play in bubbles, but then I had this moment where I was like, you know what? I have an extra 15 minutes. We will be okay. And I chose to sit there on the ground next to him and watch his little heart desire playing in the bubbles. ⁓ But it was really hard for me because I was really, really mad the first moment.
Speaker 1 (46:29)
Yeah, I bet. I bet. How slippery was...
Speaker 2 (46:33)
He was so slippery that I had to get two towels and wrap him and then wrap him again because he was like, and then I had to cradle him to carry him to the bathtub, to put him in the bathtub. then of course it took forever to get all the bubbles off of him because he was bubbling up. It was like a full bubble, but he was in heaven. It was just one of those moments that I was like, okay, fine. And it lasted twice as long as it normally would have, right?
He was so excited to be the bubble boy. That's what he kept calling himself. Bubble boy, bubble boy.
Speaker 1 (47:07)
Oh, that's great. That's a good memory. A gift and all the drama, all the drama.
Speaker 2 (47:10)
Yes, it was a fun one. What a good one.
Dick.
Our music is by Stephen Bettall. If you're loving these conversations, we'd be so grateful if you followed the podcast, left a review, or shared this episode with a friend. That's how we grow this little front porch community. And remember, the days are long.
Speaker 1 (47:34)
but the years are short. While we often talk about mental health, this should not be used as a substitute for mental health treatment. If you or your child are struggling, please reach out to a local provider.