In this podcast episode, Meagan and Katie discuss the significance of routines and rituals in parenting.
They explore how routines provide structure and safety for children, while also emphasizing the importance of flexibility in adapting these routines.
The conversation delves into the difference between routines and rituals, highlighting how rituals can foster connection and meaningful moments between parents and children.
Practical tips for implementing routines and creating rituals are shared, along with insights on navigating challenges that arise in family dynamics.
Resources mentioned: I Love You Rituals, Dr. Becky Bailey
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Meagan (00:25)
All right, hi y'all, welcome to our podcast today. Today we are gonna be talking about routines and rituals. And so, Katie, I don't know about you, but I hear a lot of times from parents, it's like just, I talk to parents a lot about like beginning routines. And whether the idea is like foreign or super new, sometimes they like just struggle, it's hard to put into place.
And so as we kind of get started, tell me for you, Katie, like, what do you think of when you hear routine?
Katie (00:58)
⁓ So when I think of routines for myself, I guess I think like the first thing that comes to mind is ⁓ for myself and how helpful it is for me to have routines and to keep my routines in place. Right? So like I notice when I'm not keeping to my routines that I don't feel great. ⁓ And so ⁓
I am going to intentionally not go on a big tangent here, but ⁓ I really like having like a get up in the morning routine. ⁓ And then like when I get home from work routine, right? It just makes me feel more steady and like things are more predictable. And so.
I know because of the work that we do that routines make kids feel like their lives are more steady and that just sort of like makes sense to me because I feel it kind of in my bones for myself. Does that make sense?
Meagan (02:04)
yet.
Yeah, and I think like all the neuroscience totally supports that, right? And so like, ⁓ when we talk about routines, think often the thing, I don't know about you, but the thing that I hear from parents is like, they take, it's like so hard. And I think when we think about like implementing routines, ⁓ I think a lot of times we think of like giant things, right? So it's like, we're going to do like a morning routine, right? We're gonna make sure our kid drinks three glasses of water and makes their bed and cleans the room. And like, we add all of these really big things in it.
think if you can, those are great. But like the goal of routines is like you said, to create that predictability to help our kids learn skills and to help create that safety and security.
Katie (02:47)
Yeah, that's really good point. Okay, so ⁓ I have a question for you. What do like what do routines look like for you in your house? Because as you were talking, I was thinking about like, my gosh, if I asked my kids to drink a whole glass of water in the morning, what, like the rebellion that would, there would be mutiny. So what does routine look like for you in your house?
Meagan (03:05)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think I lean simple, right, in general. And so when I say that, like my kids are older. So when my kids were really little, I had a very, very structured routine. like, and I'm gonna...
I'm you this, because it gets you. So like when I'm thinking of my old, when he was little, the first thing we did when he got up is like we went potty and then we sat in his high chair and he sat in his high chair and he played while I made him breakfast and then he ate his breakfast and then we cleaned up together and like we had this really, really structured thing that existed for almost like all my kids when they were little. And so that then leads to the routine that is in place for them now. So like my oldest.
⁓ He has to get up early and doesn't get to take the bus. And so what it looks like is, is me literally hollering, like, get up, it's time to go. Right? And so then some of the things that we've done his whole life, he's already just does because he's been doing them since he could walk. Right? And so like he'll get up and he pluffs his pillow, throws the sheet over the bed. Right? Cause we've been doing that. He gets dressed, he goes and brushes his teeth. He grabs his breakfast bar and he gets in the car and like,
makes his water bottle. And those are the like very simple. I'm not, I mentally space can't move the world. And so I don't expect my kids to, but we built this, like, this is what you do to help you feel better. And he's kind of tweaked it for him. ⁓ and so, but it had to come out of like, we just have to have that structure to begin with. And I think it becomes hard when we have to like shift those routines. And so we've had to do some morning shifts just cause changing school and things like that. And so we do feel
Katie (04:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Meagan (04:50)
They're like, ⁓ And so I think that's the hardest part as a parent is when I have to shift or implement those routines.
Katie (04:57)
Yeah, yeah, that's super true. That's super true. Or like, when your kids want to shift the routine, and you're like, No, I don't this works. This works. And my routine is set up around your routine. And so when you want to shift, like when your routine is shifting, that means I have to change my routine, which I personally don't love. ⁓ So my oldest, ⁓ who is just a year younger than Megan's oldest,
Meagan (05:05)
yeah, we're not.
100 %
Katie (05:27)
So she's 13 and she likes to get up at 5 o'clock in the morning. ⁓ And yeah, she's never needed a lot of sleep. So anyway, so she likes to up at 5 o'clock in the morning and ⁓ immediately get in the shower. And like it's the first stop, right? So like get up, stop at the bathroom, get in the shower. She takes a shower. She does. ⁓
Meagan (05:35)
your daughter.
Katie (05:56)
her like hygiene stuff after that. like brush teeth, deodorant, all that. And then makes her breakfast, makes her lunch. She's pretty independent at all of those things. ⁓ And then she likes to have some like quiet time before it's time to get in the car to go to school. ⁓ And for the life of me, like I just, that is, she just really enjoys that routine. What I would prefer is for her to stay in bed until like six so that I could get up.
I could do my workout, I could do my journaling all in a quiet house, like in some privacy. Yeah, without like, hey, mom, where's this? Where's my water bottle? How come we don't have any clean towels? And it just, so it's like, how do we, how do we mesh together our different routines of all these different like family members? ⁓
Meagan (06:30)
without any questions, right?
Exactly
Thank
Katie (06:55)
So anyway, it's like it's a balancing act, right? But ⁓ anyway, so I think we talked about like why they're important. Megan talked a little bit about like why they are good for the nervous system. think another like one of the reasons that we talk about with parents is that having routines for kids builds in a sense of safety because
Meagan (06:57)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (07:24)
Their world is consistent. And so it's predictable. They know that each day, while it's going to have some curveballs, they know that they're going to have to flex a little bit here and there, and maybe a lot here and there. They have some dependability and reliability around the structure of the day. So it builds in this sense of safety and security.
Meagan (07:27)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Katie (07:54)
within like the whole 24 hour. Okay, so we hear a lot about, sorry, go ahead.
Meagan (08:02)
I was gonna ask,
Katie, because I think one of the things that is, we have our kids who, all kids really love routines, right? It really is. And as humans, we love routines, right? But what do you typically say to your kids, to your parents, when the shift in their routine, that flexibility is really hard? Because we do have some of those kids, right? So it's like, nope, nope, I brush my teeth before I...
eat breakfast and you're like okay like but no we have to eat breakfast now because it's hot or whatever the thing is right where that shift is really hard in those routines. How do you work to build that flexibility?
Katie (08:37)
Mm hmm. Yeah. So, ⁓ and I will say, right, we hear, so kids are kind of built with varying levels of tolerance for, ⁓ flexibility for, ⁓ discomfort. And so our job is to remember, we, talked to a couple of episodes ago about what kind of a grownup are we trying to help build? ⁓ and what we want to have.
as an adult is this ability to kind of hold our life stable while being able to flex under different circumstances. So if my life requires that I deal with something that is unexpected in the day, I want to be able to deal with that. for example, if the routine is that we pick up from school and then we immediately go home and then home, have, you know, items number one, two and three that we do.
Well, on this specific day, we pick up from school and we need to go to the grocery store before we get home and your kiddo does not like that and like gets frustrated about, are we stopping? Can't you drop me off first? And you really like realistically, that doesn't make any sense. ⁓ I think one of the things that we talk to parents about is like intentionally or being intentional about
Meagan (09:55)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (10:06)
building in opportunities for flexibility in small amounts and being able to respond in a way that is like kind ⁓ and firm, right? So if the opportunity comes up where it's like, okay, we have to stop at the store because we literally don't have anything for dinner. I know that you guys don't like to do this, but we have to do it. ⁓ And then you get like,
big reaction right like I don't want to stop I want to go home I need to relax this is my relaxing time you know that whole thing ⁓ right so it and at the end of the day we're tired too ⁓ and so it's hard to do this but if we can keep ourselves level and say I know this isn't part of our normal ⁓ thank you for being flexible
we are going to stop at the store and then we will be going home. So we're acknowledging, right? So we're kind of going through, yes, we're going through that same structure. We're acknowledging the feeling. It's okay to be frustrated about it. And we're still going to the store. And I think...
Meagan (11:11)
Mm-hmm. And then act.
Katie (11:28)
Again, these are just things that like life is going to require that we be flexible, you know, and so we are helping them become the type of grownup that they need to be. You know, it's not going to serve them well if in their job they cannot flex a little bit in their day to day routine. So us saying, yeah, or school, right? So in if we always accommodate and we say, ⁓
Meagan (11:35)
Hmm.
Or school. Yeah.
Katie (11:56)
Well, my kid can't stop at the store on the way home. And we don't require them to make some shifts in their day to day. We are not serving them well. We have to give them the opportunity to feel uncomfortable and be kind to them in that and like trust them to be able to soothe themselves. I don't know. What do you think? What would you add?
Meagan (12:23)
Yeah, no, I totally agree with those pieces. ⁓ And I think the idea of like, this time I think we do that. I do that in my family. Okay, yeah, that's what we do typically, but this time we're gonna do a little different, right? And creating just like we call it, like that flexibility in their language and in their brains of how do we be a little bit different for sure. And so I think that...
Katie (12:39)
Mmm.
Meagan (12:49)
We all like I think Katie, it's funny you started with like I don't want to move change my routine, right? There's that piece in all of us, right? Like I don't want to change my routine. And so we all have that. I think as parents, like we have that one of the hardest pieces of parenting is like it is all just so great, right? Like routines are so helpful for us and for our kids. They do do all of that amazing brain science piece that we talk about and create safety and help us learn things fast.
Katie (12:55)
⁓ It's so true.
Meagan (13:19)
and all of those pieces and we still have to learn to be flexible and so we can't and it can't go right all the time like we all know it can't go right and so it's just all that gray and I think giving parents confidence in that gray is like what we both strive to do so much and give you guys lots of ideas for it.
Katie (13:26)
now.
Yeah,
yeah, for sure, for sure. Okay, so some confusion comes up sometimes when people ask about like, there's language in the parenting world around rituals, like really positive rituals. We're not talking about like, you know, weirdo rituals, you know, like hanging. I think that's a weird. ⁓
Meagan (14:03)
That word does have quite a connection. I agree. Like there's definitely,
it's one of those words that you definitely have a feeling about when you hear it, for sure. We're not talking about those things.
Katie (14:11)
Yeah.
Exactly. Exactly. So we're talking about sweet rituals with your kids ⁓ and how those are different from routine. ⁓ So Megan, do you want to explain what we are talking about when we talk about rituals with our kids?
Meagan (14:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, okay. So, while we're talking about routine, it's just like how we do something and it creates that structure in that piece versus a ritual is going to the goal of ritual is to get to build special connection and ⁓ memories around something, right? So like I think the goal of routine is going to be to get something done, right? And then the goal of a ritual is to help us to feel connected and to really all about the relationship piece. And so, ⁓ I'm a huge
fan of helping to create rituals because as a parent like y'all we get lost in routines like we got so much to do and so moving moving moving moving it can feel like I went all day and I don't even know if I like held my baby right like or whatever it is just because we're just moving we have so much to do and so I love rituals because it like slows us down and helps us to really really connect with our babies. What would you add to the difference?
Katie (15:29)
Yeah, you know, I think for me, it feels like building in moments of like joy that are recurring. That's what it feels like to me. And we'll give some examples here in a couple of minutes, but it's like intentionally, I like your word about connecting. It's like intentionally reconnecting.
during the either weekly or daily. ⁓ And a lot of the time, like we all know that there are rituals around the holidays, right? So rituals around the holidays are things like we all sit together and open gifts, right? ⁓ Or we go caroling, right? ⁓ And I don't really know. We go see Christmas lights.
Meagan (16:10)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
we go see Christmas lights. All those things.
Katie (16:26)
In the fall, we go pick apples, we go trick or treating at Halloween, right? Or whatever ⁓ your holidays include, ⁓ those are rituals, right? But so I think the thing that Megan and I want to make sure you guys are ⁓ thoughtful about is how can we build rituals into kind of our more
the rhythm of regular daily life, because that can be such a gift both to you and your child. So I would say that, okay, so I'm gonna give an example of a couple of rituals that I have with my kids. So one of them is that I really enjoy
In the morning when I go wake up my youngest and the oldest gets herself up and kind of hits the ground running, she wakes up really fast. The youngest wakes up really slowly. And if I don't assist with this, it doesn't happen. ⁓ And there will come a day where I will stop doing this ⁓ because she'll need to be more independent. I realize that, but I'm kind of like hanging on. I'm kind of like savoring the last little bit of it. ⁓
Meagan (17:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Katie (17:56)
And so I go in in the morning, I know it's time to get her up. So I start at like 6 0 5 and I go in and I like sit on the edge of her bed and I start to like rub her back. And then she like starts to wake up and she does this weird like grumpy thing ⁓ where she like says something random halfway asleep. And it's very funny to me. ⁓ And then she finally starts to wake up a little bit and.
Meagan (18:18)
always.
Katie (18:24)
you know, and there's just some sweetness to it. And I know that she really likes to be woken up very slowly and kind of loved on in that way. Same thing at night, right? Like it's, it's part of the routine, but it's part of, it's, it's a ritual, right? Like laying in bed together, reading books or talking about the day or talking about what her friends are up to and why they're doing the things they're doing. And ⁓
Meagan (18:34)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (18:52)
Those are rituals because they're connecting. Okay, what about you?
Meagan (18:59)
Um, yeah, okay. So when are there's a book that I love. It's called I love you rituals and it's by Dr. Becky Bailey. And so she's a wonderful and I loved it because it takes the whole things about rituals, creating moments with your kids, but it takes like creepy old nursery rhymes and makes them not creepy. And so I love
Katie (19:23)
No!
Meagan (19:24)
I know! It makes them not creepy. They're like so sweet. So one of the things I did with every one of my kids is like I chose a different song that was for them, right? So when I put them to bed, I would sing them their song. And like when they were having a hard moment, right? I would sing them their song. And so that was something that we did a lot, a lot, a lot when they were getting little. And I'm gonna tell you all this. This is so funny.
The other day I was like cleaning and doing stuff and my kid was sitting, my oldest was sitting in the media room just like chilling out like lying on his phone and all of sudden I hear him singing his song y'all. Like I had it singing to him like, I mean I sing it every once in while when I like want to cuddle I like sing it to him and like but he was singing it and so I think that goes to show like this is something that like we haven't done consistently probably since he was in kindergarten, first grade. But that stuck with
Katie (20:00)
Mm-hmm.
that.
Meagan (20:21)
him
enough that when he's just zoning out, all of a sudden he starts singing his little song.
That was like a super small ritual that we did that was really, really consistent and super important to me. And now it still sticks with him in lots of ways. And so I think when they're small, it's really kind of easy to build them. And then as they get older, it looks different. And so I would say, we have a lot of like goodbye rituals right now. And so that kind of, cause they're leaving all the time cause they're big and that's fine. But so what it looks like is, which is actually one that my dad used to do with me, but it's like, say, do me a favor.
Katie (20:43)
Yeah.
Meagan (20:58)
and then my kids always respond, have fun. Right? And that's still super silly, but it's like just this reminder that one, we got something that we do together to say bye, and then it's just something that I hope for them. And so we have like those little rituals ⁓ for goodbyes that ⁓ are still super important and really fun for us too, because we don't get to cuddle with them when they get big. They're just, they stink. Let's be real too.
Katie (21:24)
my gosh, so smelly, so smelly. And it's, I know, and it's like, you don't want to constantly be like, I love you so much. Can you please put some deodorant on right now? Or step far, far away from my face. Or like get out of the car. have to walk. Yeah. No, my ritual is please put deodorant on. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah. I think don't, this is not a moment of, it's not a moment of joy. It's not.
Meagan (21:26)
They're so smart, the teenagers are so smart.
Mm-mm. Far, far away. Exactly. ⁓
I don't feel connected for that, Katie. They feel judged. No.
Katie (21:54)
It's not.
Yeah, I love that. And I think it's like we have to read the room because if they don't love what we'd like to have as a ritual, it's probably not the thing.
Meagan (22:04)
Yeah.
100%. Yeah, I would still lay and read with my children if they let me. Like that would be my chosen ritual. I'd be super honest. Not happening. Yeah.
Katie (22:15)
Yes, yes. Like
I would really love to sit and paint with mine ⁓ and they are not interested in that. They would not love to do that. So that can't be the ritual, right? it can't, this is a, again, it's a balance of like, how can we fit together in something that we both enjoy and isn't all about what I, mom, want to do or what I, dad, want to do. ⁓
Meagan (22:22)
You're doing that. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Katie (22:42)
and probably leans farther in the direction of what is enjoyable to the kids. ⁓ So again, that book is I Love You Rituals by Dr. Becky Bailey. So we'll put that in the show notes. ⁓ And we love that. We recommend it to a ton of our parents. ⁓ And then in terms of implementing routines for our kids.
Meagan (22:46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Becky Bailey.
all the time.
Katie (23:11)
Right, so if we go back to routines, so we talked about rituals for a few minutes and how those can be kind of off the cuff and you can kind of just build them and sprinkle them in through your day, kind of like fairy dust, right? We're just like building connection through the day. So routines, which help us all feel a little bit more steady and sturdy and stable, I've got all those ST words, that was fun. ⁓ Yeah, so ⁓ in terms of kind of building those routines in, I think.
Meagan (23:22)
my God.
That was fun. ⁓
Katie (23:40)
You know, Megan mentioned them being simple. I completely agree. And I think what I would start with, I would say start small. If you're finding that it's just like chaos in the morning, first of all, at the beginning of the school year, same, same, right? Like everybody's trying to figure out like what in the world does this look like? And so then it becomes like, how do we put some rhythm into this?
And so my recommendation is start small. Let's put two of these things in an order and see how it goes. ⁓ And if that works well, put a third one in the order. ⁓ I really like for myself when the kids were little, writing it down and putting it on the fridge. ⁓ So there's you can get like whiteboards that magnet to the fridge or you can put it on the back of the pantry door or whatever. ⁓ So that's for littles. And then
Meagan (24:27)
Yes.
Well, I still
use that for my kids when we have to make shifts, right? And so I'm gonna be super real. So when the school year started, we shifted of like, this is our school time routine. And that meant, so on their whiteboards went time they woke up, the chores that were expected after school, and the time that they were expected to be in bed. Like that's what, and so I think I still use that. ⁓ And honestly, as a parent, I use it as like, I am not going to tell you again, look on the board.
Katie (25:05)
Yeah, yeah.
So yes, I completely agree. So, and I have lists on the fridge for, ⁓ for my kids that say like, these are the things that need to get done before you walk out the door. ⁓ And so it's like, ⁓ brush teeth, pack lunch, fill up your water bottle. ⁓ And then one of them has an instrument she has to take to school, the other one has to make sure she takes meds. And so it's like, if
Meagan (25:06)
because sometimes you can't say it 100 times.
Katie (25:35)
They're kind of lollygagging around. ⁓ Do people say that anymore? Lollygagging, that's what it makes me think of a lollipop. Okay, so anyway, so they each have to make their way through their list. And if they're kind of, know, jacking around, then I'll be like, hey, did you get through everything on your list? And they invariably say,
Meagan (25:39)
I always say I like that word, it's Lollipop. Okay, anyway. This is how we work, y'all.
Or yes, they say yes. My own will say yes.
Katie (26:03)
Yeah, they say
say yes. And then I say, OK, great. Did you take your meds? ⁓ except for that, I forgot that. Yep. So but it is nice to have something to refer to so that like when they're done with one thing, they typically do go to the list and look and see. So it's just a lot more independent in terms of like I'm not having to stand and be like, OK, next is this and then come back and talk to me. OK, next is this. Then come back and talk to me like I can still work through my stuff while they're working through theirs.
So that's what I would say, going back to the question like implementing routines for our kids. I would say start small and build from there over time because they're going to get overwhelmed if you're like, okay, we've never done this before. And here are the seven steps of our new routine. Everybody fall in line. Ready, set, Yeah. Yes, everybody, would set everybody up for frustration.
Meagan (26:48)
be a big headache for everyone.
⁓ Yeah, not only do we start small, I recommend, but I choose like one activity, one area. And so I'll encourage parents like, okay, if coming home is where it feels like complete chaos, like let's just build a routine in there. Like we don't have to build a routine for all the things to begin with. I'm sure you guys have some routines. Typically we do have routines whether we think about it or not. ⁓
Katie (27:00)
Yeah.
Meagan (27:18)
And so just being able to examine that and then make some shifts in there can be really helpful for your kids.
Katie (27:25)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what we can do in coming episodes put together for y'all kind of ⁓ maybe like a worksheet in terms of like, how do you want to intentionally build routines based on your family values, your activities, what feels important in terms of like building skill sets for your kids. And
this is something that we both feel is pretty important and it can be, you know, kind of fluid, right? Like it shifts as needed. And on the days that it doesn't go great, give yourself so, so, so much grace and so much compassion and give your kids compassion. ⁓ There are days that we come in and we're like, well, that was a disaster.
And that's okay. That's okay. It's funny. It's allowed because all the other days, you know, most of the other days go fine. And that's all we're looking for.
Meagan (28:34)
Yeah, and I would say try again, right? Like we get to redo and try again to help us and our kiddos to do them well.
Katie (28:44)
Yeah, yeah, we're all figuring it out together. I think that's it, right? The family's figuring it out together. Okay, y'all, well, we hope that you enjoyed this podcast about rituals and routines, and we will see you next time. Bye.
Meagan (29:02)
Bye!